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Heel Shifter Mod

11K views 32 replies 14 participants last post by  rickpcmp3 
#1 · (Edited)
For those who see this bike purely as a sportbike, don't hate on me; and please spare us of immature comments. My experience riding sportbikes may very well surpass yours, as I've ridden all sizes over the past 20 years as well as riding the Daytona Int'l Speedway. Furthermore, I intend to get sporty on it, but in the sense of touring.

Anyhow on to the mod. I'd like to do for this bike what I did for a Buell S3 years ago, which is add a heel shifter to prevent what I call the dreaded "shifter foot" from leaving its mark on the left big toe of all of my shoes. The design is simple, and has been in use for years on cruiser style bikes. Instead of slipping your toe under the shifter to shift up, you slide your foot back on the peg so that you're on the ball of your foot, and then press down with your heel to shift up. It is really a great improvement in my opinion for daily riding (maybe not for hardcore road racing?).

When I made the shifter for the Buell, I simply went to a salvage yard and picked out a used shifter with a bend in it, a bend that worked best in my application. I then welded the used shifter backwards to the shifter already on the bike, and had the stock toe shifter for down-shifting and a modded heel shifter for up-shifting. I could even wear a white leather comfort shoe and not have to be concerned about the black mark on the top of the shoe.

I've attached a little diagram I've drawn representing my intentions. The black is our current shifter and peg from a side, or elevation view. The purple is my heel shifter mod. The purpose for my sharing this with you is twofold. One, for your own consideration if you never thought of it; and two, to get ideas on which bike's shifter might work best for the mod. The 99-02 Yamaha YZFR6 has perfect bends for the task, but with one major and one minor problem. The major problem is a deal-breaker [it's forged aluminum, so I can't weld it to our stock steel shifter]. The minor problem I could live with, especially since I'll paint the whole heel/toe shifter flat black when done. The YZF shifter has a hole in it from the side view.

In the worst case scenario I'll just get a typical strait shifter, cut its original mount off, add a small section of steel to get the desired additional angle [as seen in my diagram]. I know I can make it work that way. I'd just rather only have to weld once if possible to make it look as factory as possible. With that said, anyone have ideas for a good donor shifter?
 

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#2 · (Edited)
After back surgery several years ago, I couldn't raise the toes of my left foot off the ground. I didn't think it was a big deal until the first time I rode my bike and I had trouble upshifting. The problem went away after a few months but would have had me considering the same thing.
 
#4 ·
I think this is a bad idea and creates bad riding habbits. 20 years of expirence should have told you that...good luck I guess :rolleyes:

EDIT: By Black motorcycle boots....no more worries about your kicks getting dirty
 
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#5 ·
there are rational ergonomic reasons for single lever shifters..
for starters, with cbr250r pegs/seat/bars relationship
[compare to lay back type honda vtx etc ergonomics]
to change using heel causes reciprocal recruitment
of other muscles radiating from the heel upwards,
including into your lower left back..
without going into it, this is not a basically good thing..
single sided heel stomping actions repeated over and over..
aside from negative effects of repeated single side actions
this cannot be or be conducive to better stability of
rider and motorcyle moving mass, regardless..

that said, mate, do what you feel best for you..
surely a honda vtx type of gear selector could be
crafted to fit your purpose, given you have welding etc..

the obvious simple answer is dont wear expensive white
shoes when riding, or wear some other sort of comfortable
shoes made for riding motorcycles [incl with gear pads]
of which there are many types available today..

finally,, the most obvious response, to marks on shoes
is; who gives a 5hit [!]... he says/thinks with a smile :)

like you, ive had decades of riding experience
and this 'problem' has never arisen for me..
cbr250r gear changes are light, short and easy..
gear leaver can be moved on spline + adjusted..
i added yoshi rear set plates to suit my position..

whatever you choose to do tho, good luck
and enjoy this great honda motorcycle..
 
#12 · (Edited)
there are rational ergonomic reasons for single lever shifters..
for starters, with cbr250r pegs/seat/bars relationship
[compare to lay back type honda vtx etc ergonomics]
to change using heel causes reciprocal recruitment
of other muscles radiating from the heel upwards,
including into your lower left back..
without going into it, this is not a basically good thing..
single sided heel stomping actions repeated over and over..
aside from negative effects of repeated single side actions
this cannot be or be conducive to better stability of
rider and motorcyle moving mass, regardless..

that said, mate, do what you feel best for you..
surely a honda vtx type of gear selector could be
crafted to fit your purpose, given you have welding etc..

the obvious simple answer is dont wear expensive white
shoes when riding, or wear some other sort of comfortable
shoes made for riding motorcycles [incl with gear pads]
of which there are many types available today..

finally,, the most obvious response, to marks on shoes
is; who gives a 5hit [!]... he says/thinks with a smile :)

like you, ive had decades of riding experience
and this 'problem' has never arisen for me..
cbr250r gear changes are light, short and easy..
gear leaver can be moved on spline + adjusted..
i added yoshi rear set plates to suit my position..

whatever you choose to do tho, good luck
and enjoy this great honda motorcycle..

Don't knock it until you've tried it, and if it's set up right there will be no stomping; merely a pivoting of the ankle. The 04 VTX 1300 shifter may work if its steel; thanks. Now it's a matter of finding one for the right price.
 
#6 ·
The bike I learned on had this exact set up.
Yamaha had little bikes (60cc) and scooters with this set up in the 60's. Yamaha's shift pattern was different from Honda back in the day. Neutral was always between 1st and 2nd, but it was all down on the toe to upshift and down on the heel to downshift. Eventually Yamaha changed their shift pattern to the universal 1 down and 5 up.
I would post a picture of an example, if I could only figure out how to do it..:mad:
 

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#7 ·
I don't like the idea and think it would be really awkward to shift with your heel. with the standard riding position having the ball of your foot on the peg, I don't think I could even flex my ankle enough to push with my heel. Don't get me wrong, it's your bike, do whatever you want but I don't think it's a good idea.
 
#8 ·
You didn't literally heel-toe. You would tap each side of the lever with the ball of your foot. It may have been designed with the "heel-toe" in mind, but you would just lift your foot, and tap, to operate.
Like I said, at some point, this design was re thunk and Yamaha went the shift pattern way of Honda....
 
#9 · (Edited)
Some are Missing the Point & Some are Getting it

First of I'm not asking whether or not anyone thinks this is a good idea. I've already decided from past experience with this setup that it's a great advantage for me. It in no way prevents from riding regularly, but it does save your shoe and your toe, or top of your foot if need be for whatever medical reason. The main reason I posted this thread is twofold.

One, those who might benefit and have an improved riding experience/quality of life etc. from it (I fall into this category).

Two, there are thousands of motorcycles that have been produced over the years, and some of them on occasion have abnormal shift levers like the Yamaha R6 I mentioned [and I would gladly use it if it were steel], or even the Yamaha scooter pictured above (this shifter obviously wouldn't work for the application). I'm asking for anyone who might know of a bike that has a steel shifter similar to the 99-02 R6's.

Finally, please if you feel it's necessary to voice your opinion as to why this is a bad idea, bite your tongue. Share your mind with someone who want's to convert the 250 into a stunt bike with a back brake lever on the handlebar next the clutch lever, or something similarly erroneous, okay? :eek: I've enough to read on a daily basis then a piece of your mind that you probably couldn't afford to lose to begin with. TIA!
 
#13 ·
well rick i dont see my response as 'knocking it'
in the sense of unreasoned disparagement etc,
rather, reasoned response to the matter raised..

anyone can with practice get any action sequence
down to an efficient level, in this eg, without,
needing to lift their leg up and stomp down..
yet there are subtleties in an action using ankle
flexing which do and can influence other muscles
and joints 'up the line' and into the back..

its like [just an eg] a schoolkid carrying his bag
on one side only thru school resulting in slight
scoliosis on that side later on..
even if one side or muscle sequence gets stronger
as a result of the repeated action, its still going
to be lopsided in effect and potential..

when the question includes options
such as not needing to do that action,
then its reasonable to consider that option..

incidentally, i have seen friends and others
riding bikes with heel/toe shifters who did use
obvious stomping actions on the heel side..

no big deal mate..
as i said, do what you feel is best for you :)
 
#14 ·
For the nay-sayers I found a 5 year old pic of my of my old Buell S3 I converted over to and S3T. Look closely, and you'll see the heel shifter I welded on it. It worked like a charm, even with the big 1203cc high torque Harley Sportster engine and characteristic clunky tranny that propelled it. I welded it in a manner so that my heel would rest on the shifter. When I wanted to shift up I just pivoted my ankle in pretty much the same way I do when shifting up when my foot/toes is/are under the shifter on the conventional shifter we have currently. It didn't even require any acclamation or getting used to; shifts seemed and occurred naturally, effortlessly. May I even dare say more effectively and efficiently.

http://rlebay.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/img_1080.jpg
 
#15 ·
this then may be the inevitable exception to a general rule,
ie, with an experienced motorcyclist having practiced riding skills
together with ability and imagination sufficient to create,
and engineer/manufacture to personal custom specifications..

youre certainly not the average novice or typical bike rider
confronted with a need to custom build his own gear shift system :)

i had a mate years ago who lost his right arm in a bike smash..
but he kept riding,, using a custom made artificial arm and
'throttle hand' or pincer, which when worn used muscles in his
back or his shoulder blade movement, to activate the right
side bar grasping pincer and throttle activator..
had both brakes hooked up to the foot brake..
that was on a bultaco metralla 250 2 stroke single
[27.5hp @ 7500rpm, 5 speed, 93 mph, 247lb
just looked up the specs]

anything to do with creation of a motorcycle suited
to any particular purpose is innately interesting to me,
including your custom gear change system..
 
#17 ·
I can do that, but I don't weld for a living. Therefore my welds aren't always the prettiest, and it would require more cutting of metal, grinding ugly welds, etc. Likewise if I found a shifter with bends that are close enough to my app, when the project is done, it should look almost factory, or at least not be unsightly.
 
#21 ·
Thank you again for everyone who's made a positive contribution to this thread. As the temperature just dropped her in FL, and my first valve inspection (&adjustment if necessary) is now due. I'll be parking the bike for a little down time, and hope to maybe get shifter mod done once it's all back together in the coming weeks. I don't own the welder; it's at a friends shop. In the mean time I'll attempt to locate a doner shifter. If it is presentable after it's finished I'l post pics. :D
 
#24 ·
I've been thinking about the same type of conversion, I ride both currently, my other bike is, by coincidence, an 08 VTX, the heel toe movement is not all that much different. My foot pivots on the peg pretty much the same as with my CBR, I've got floor boards on the VTX but the shifting is still one down four up, I can utilize just toe shifting if I want, pivoting back with my heel is the same motion as if I were pushing up with my toe in ankle motion. I know there is a minor difference if you have never ridden a bike with one or the other, I've never had a problem switching, but I think there is a more positive engagement of the transmission with the heel shift, there are body mechanics, probably, that can explain how that works, maybe it is a more direct motion with the leg in direct alignment on the heel rather than an upward pivot of the toe. I have never noticed anything like a "heel stomp" when I shift, merely a pivot through my heel movement.
I am still interested in the outcome of this thread and if you figure it out and can get it duplicated keep me posted.


Doc
 
#25 ·
once the lever moves, that movement flows thru engagement process,
but there can be better control of, the initiating movement, due to
foot structure, including toes and related joints..
[try holding your toes curled down and under, then lift front foot up]
you will likely experience an unnatural feeling as one part of your
foot tries to pull down/under while the other part tries to move up..

when moving lever upward, your toes contribute to this action,,
which is their natural tendency when pivoting the foot upwards..
using toes together with gross foot movement increases your
potential 'feel' of the lever and its movement, this allowing
more feedback to brain ['feel'] thus 'better' control..

with heel of course there are no toes or other moving joints
beyond the basic pivot at ankle.. with this same shared
ankle pivot there will be better feel, easier control,
due to leverage, as contact point with lever is further
away from the pivoting ankle joint [compared to heel]..

'stomp' action need not be like crushing a tin can with heel,
for muscles up the line to also switch on in response,,
causing a less isolated movement at the end of the foot
to be transmitted [even subtly for experienced people]
past the ankle joint, up into the leg and even thighs
and on into pelvic floor and even lower back for some..

try using the tips of your thumbs on the space bar
while typing [typical] then try using only the first
pivoting joint in thumbs attachment sequence,
ie, just forward of the inner crease of wrist..
while you can activate the space bar with this
small protrusion which doesnt have the sequence
of joints to make 'whip-like' flowing movements,
it is still easier and better using tip of thumb
thus also the small progressive movements
of the next two joints of the thumb...

this is why using the toe end of the foot
is better than using the heel end of the foot
for this [gear lever movement] or any
action involving controlled pressure
to create specific movements
[where force is not the factor]..
 
#28 ·
Shisoshin, if I thought it were practical enough I could just put an air shifter on the bike. This would certainly relieve the need for my toe to dig under the factory shifter as well as save my shoe(s) in the future. Then again I'm sure you can tell me how a prolonged use of pressing a button with my left thumb while holding the handlebar, and actuating the clutch at the same time, is going to cause great problems physiologically. :D
 
#26 ·
I actually really like this idea. I use my bike to commute to work, and get on/off the bike at least six times throughout the day. My black shoes are nice dress shoes that I don't want to scuff up, and something like this could keep them looking nice.

In fact, the Harley guy who taught my first MSF course explained the heel-toe system as "the only respectable way to shift a motorcycle" ;)
 
#27 ·
riding shoes have rubber pads at lever contact site on shoe..
it would be a piece of cake to get say, a padded wrist band
or make your own shoe protector..
put it on for riding, into your pocket for walking..

or, make a heel shifter, if thats your priority :)
riding pleasure, regardless...
 
#29 ·
before modern sports physiology etc you could tell
a tennis player and which arm he used by the size of it..
single sided repetition of position and movement does
have effects on joints and musculature involved..

depending on what you start off with, and other input
incl other uses of the joints/muscles, two people doing
the same/similar movements can have different effects,,
some positive [strength, flexibility etc] some negative..

if someone wants to make their cbr250r into an automatic,,
it doesnt enter into anything of any influence on me..

whatever makes them happy, esp on a motorcycle :)
 
#30 ·
Update: This is for those who've shown interest in doing this. I'm thinking a CBR 600 F3 shifter will work best, and will hopefully find out Monday when I go to purchase a used one. The F2 shifter looks like it might work well too, but I'm not sure w/o lining either shifter up to the 250 for comparison. While I considered a previous shifter mentioned in the forum for a Honda cruiser, there's just not as many readily available so the used price is pretty ridiculous ($40 & up). I can get the F2-3 for $10-20 and I think it will have a cleaner look when done. I plan on cutting off the pivoting hole, and the F3's will cut off cleaner, giving a factory looking finish once the projects done.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Finishing Results

The picture of the heal shifter w/ my foot on it shows it actually in the center of my foot. It will work either on the center of the foot or the heal depending on how pronounced of a riding position you want your foot in. It took me a little longer to weld up than I hoped (2 hrs. instead of 1). Part of the reason was I couldn't bring the welder to the bike, and worked alone. I had to put/pull the shifter on and off several times, make plasma cuts (on a single power source shared by the welder, so it took a few minutes to shut down and start up each machine) for the added metal to the stock cbr 600 f3 shifter, cut and re-weld several times etc. Overall, I'm extremely pleased w/ the results! I can get on w/ the pair of shoes pictured and arrive for a meeting not too concerned about the condition of my footwear.

Something to takeaway is Shisoshin was partially right, it will take a little getting used to for some (i.e. there's a learning curve). The shifter had to be mounted a little higher than expected from the experience I had with the Buell (this is because you sat a little more upright on the Buell). Finally, some of you may be thinking, great I'd love to have one, but I can't weld or have access to the special tools. That's understandable, I'd recommend you take this forum thread to your local welder and request a quote to have it done. Tell 'em you'll supply the F3 shifter, or any shifter for that matter (prolly could use an F2, or another cbr 250's; I picked one up off Craigslist for $10, and they'll all over eBay, and old $3 dirt bike shifter could work too). A welder worth their salt I should think wouldn't charge more than $50-$100 for this fabrication.
 

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