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Old 12-07-2012, 02:05 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
Great, hero. I'm glad you are so skilled. The truth is, most people are not. That's why ABS is a good tool for the masses. And as far as recommending practicing.... the whole point of my post was that people don't practice maximum braking on a regular basis and that's where ABS comes in... it maintains nearly maximum traction even when the guy doesn't have the experience or panics and squeezes too hard despite experience.

I don't appreciate you calling that post ignorant. Applying maximum traction while practicing is a lot different than achieving the same when you face a split-second life-or-death accident situation. Most people's skills are nowhere near professional racers, and it's proven at the track time and time again. Most people show up for their first amature race and get embarrassed. I see it at Auto-crosses all the time. People show up thinking they are good or average drivers and their times are horribly slow... The diffference between a weekend racer whose been racing 10 years and a novice is huge. The differnce between a pro and that weekend racer is also huge. Furthermore, the amount of braking varies with road temperature, sun cover, rain, type of road surface, presence of sand, gravel, etc... The practice you get in a dry parking lot won't be the same braking resisitance in a sandy cruve orr a wet road. Maximum braking is a perishable skill. It needs to be practiced frequently and on lots of surface and weather conditions and at various speeds. If a novice thinks they are going to pick up a new motorcycle without ABS on day one and apply a skill like achieving and maintaining maximum braking in a panic situation on day 2, they are dead wrong.
i couldn't really be bothered reading it so i'll just say to read Luke's post, it sums up ABS perfectly
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:46 AM   #32
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By the way - the video on page one is crap - obviously put together by someone who wants ABS. The rider on the non-abs cycle is locking up both brakes solid and holding them with no attempt whatsoever to modulate. On the other hand, the ABS rider obviously didn't have a whole lot of faith in the technology, because he releases the brake on his stop (obvious from the change in fork compression). This is no different than NBC wiring model rocket motors to GM truck gas tanks.

There are credible ABS tests out there using skilled and unskilled riders - and they consistently show that inexperienced riders have a significant benefit from ABS. Experienced riders benefit less from the device, but it still has advantages, especially if you have an unexpected panic stop.

My main dislike of ABS is that it promotes laziness - riders, especially new ones, tend to depend on the technology instead of learning the skills they need to become better riders. The most destabilizing thing that you can do to a motorcycle is apply the brakes, yet some people still believe they have "mastered" a machine without any real knowledge of the physical forces associated with braking. If you fail to learn this, you may become a competent rider, but you will never be a skilled one.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:06 PM   #33
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By the way - the video on page one is crap - obviously put together by someone who wants ABS. The rider on the non-abs cycle is locking up both brakes solid and holding them with no attempt whatsoever to modulate. ...
Hmm, sounds exactly like what a new, unskilled rider would do in an emergency to me, as you go on to say.

My view is If you can afford it, it's an extra level of safety, so why not go for it?


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Old 12-07-2012, 04:28 PM   #34
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What is that same unskilled rider going to do when his front tire starts chirping and the bike starts shuddering? Odds are it won't be what you think - and it won't be what he thought either, if he gets his first heavy braking lesson with no room for error...

By the way, I never said don't get it - I said that it's a mistake to depend on it instead of skill.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
If a novice thinks they are going to pick up a new motorcycle without ABS on day one and apply a skill like achieving and maintaining maximum braking in a panic situation on day 2, they are dead wrong.
how so? you have to undertake an emergency braking exercise to get your license over here and if you don't have the ability to be able to apply the brakes firmly and be able to pull yourself up without ABS you shouldn't really be on the road. I love how you say "without ABS" you seem to be so reliant on ABS and if they don't have it suddenly they don't know how to emergency brake.

ABS is a great tool but proper braking needs to be taught and i don't see why a newer rider shouldn't be able to learn appropriate braking without the need of ABS. Within the next 10 years i can see newer riders buying a bike with ABS as standard and probably traction control and all the other stuff. All the skills involved in learning how to not use up all your traction and how to throttle off from a corner etc. and good strong braking will be useless because these computer aids will resurrect bad riding and keep everything in line.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:35 PM   #36
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Sorry Luke, I didn't mean to imply you said don't get it - that was my opinion on the ABS option. I also agree it shouldn't be relied upon, it is a last resort.


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Old 12-07-2012, 05:49 PM   #37
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I think that ABS is another good safety measure, even for us experienced riders. I think it's good for beginners as well. There is no way that even the best riders in the world can judge the optimal braking distance of their bikes, at many different speeds, on many different surfaces, in many different weathers. In the real world, in an emergency, no matter who you are, ABS will stop you quicker. If you're a learner, and your ABS is coming on regularly, you're braking too hard. It's better to learn this way, than to bin it every time you brake too hard. Whether you're experienced, or a learner, it's satisfying to know that in an emergency, you can just slam your brakes on as hard as you like, you will stop as quickly as possible, and you won't bin it because you did.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:01 PM   #38
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bottom line, aside from any and all rational points raised here,
as a father and life long motorcyclist my preference for
my two sons, already on hondas, would be for abs...
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:41 AM   #39
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I don't understand why people say that ABS is not good because you can't learn the proper braking techniques.... ABS ONLY kicks in IF you are doing it wrong and locking up the wheels. I say this is the BEST way to learn. If you never lock your wheels you will not even notice that you have ABS.

Recommended to get ABS... it is such a small investment and the benifits for the average rider are huge.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:20 AM   #40
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Like disc brakes, seat belts and airbags, ABS is here to stay. Nobody listens to the anti technology/ anti progress fools. If we did, we'd still be living in caves. Go join al qaeda morons.
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