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Abs?

12K views 41 replies 20 participants last post by  Luke 
#1 ·
I've been riding for about 10 years or so and have never owned a bike with ABS. Just wondering if ABS is really worth it or is it more for a beginner?
 
#2 ·
I don't think you can buy a car these days without abs. I would rather have it in an emergency than not. Up until recently, only the high end bikes had it and there are consumer reports out there that say ABS reduces fatalities by around 30%. If you do a search on this forum you'll dredge up about 10 threads on the topic.
 
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#3 ·
cracker, im a re-entry motorcyclist after 4 road hondas then
an enforced break.. also never experienced abs, but researching
this system before buying again i was impressed with reviews from
experienced riders, mc journos etc, together with my own reviews of
the system itself [design etc]..

still had some slight reservation as to perhaps losing some rider control
but decided for the abs, esp when a used black [preferred - 600km only]
abs model came up for a very good price plus good shark helmet, good
alpinestars jacket and gloves thrown in as inducement for my cash..

anyway, normal or typical suburban riding, with some care after years
out of the saddle etc, and learning this bike, and the brakes worked
like non abs, with rear perhaps feeling bit weak [good for surburbia etc]..

when nutcases in tin boxes tried to get us tho, my pre-existing skills
developed over decades of riding kicked in [to my great satisfaction :) ]
and the abs brakes did their job [i was going to say flawlessly] very well..
testing them out i found i coiuld make the rear wheel do little 'hops'
by stepping on it hard at fairly low speeds, otherwise good as gold..

first emergency use was overtaking a truck parked on my road [uphill]
noone in it facing me on my side of the road, after acellerating into my
street but still not high speed a bloke walked straight out from behind it
in front of me, pushing two wheely-bins..
it was and could only be a reflex response, i was half way past the truck,
but anyway, grabbed a handfull of front and she virtually stopped on sixpence..
no discernable easing off but no screaching of tires either, just stopped on
the spot, doing a 'frontie', rear rising up high, me up on the pegs holding bars,
pause up there [nicely balanced] then drop back down onto both wheels..

after glaring at the garbo for a second, continued up the street to park
with a big smile on my face... they certainly worked, no problem..

according to one review i read they tested using various riders of various
skills levels incl experienced road racers, over various surfaces, and only
one road racer [mc journo] managed to better the abs stopping distance
while braking with a cbr250r without, abs...

so in a nutshell, i recommend this abs system
for any rider or level of skill..
 
#4 ·
It will almost always provide a tad shorter stopping distance, especially in wet conditions. Having said that, I didn't get ABS because they didn't have any at the time I bought mine and I didn't want to wait for one. But given the choice, if they had both in stock in the color that I wanted, I would have gotten ABS.

A little bit more added safety is always worth the money!
 
#20 ·
It will almost always provide a tad shorter stopping distance, especially in wet conditions.
Actually, no; in fact, it will sometimes result in a tad longer stopping distance. What it DOES do, is keep the tire from skidding out from under you because with ABS you can't lock the wheel.

I had ABS on two different BMWs, and once it saved me from going down, because I once was coming around a curve and discovered that the second part of the curve was covered in wet manure (a Wisconsin county road ;^). I braked, the ABS cycled several times, and I was able to make the turn without skidding out. <WHEW>

Otherwise, I always tried to ride in such a way that I wouldn't activate the ABS, and I never used it after that. None of my current motorcycles have it . . . but in the future, who knows?
 
#6 ·
If you can swing the extra dough, it's worth it. It is a better braking system. And to save some other people having to type it, ABS is not a substitute for good riding technique, it is an enhancement to it.
 
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#22 ·
#10 ·
Ok, ok, ok. I'll just get one with ABS. Lol. Just wasn't really sure since I've never had them. But you guys came with a lot of good info. Thanks a lot. I'm 97% sure I'm going to get a cbr250r. Seems like more than enough bike for everyday life. I've had the 600s and no one ever really uses them to there full use. But they are super sexy. Lol


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#11 ·
Ok, ok, ok. I'll get one with ABS. Lol just wasn't sure if it was really needed but you guys came with a lot of great info. Thanks a lot. I'm 97% sure I'm going to get a cbr250r. Seems like its a great bike for everyday use. Had the 600s and they're nice, but more than anyone really needs for the street. So when riding season comes around I'll probably be getting the cbr250r. But maybe sooner cause Honda has great rates right now. So maybe I'll get one and put it in the garage till spring. ********************, that doesn't sound fair. Lol
 
#14 ·
in typical surburban traffic type situations of slowing using engine braking
plus gentle rear braking abs [on my bike] doesnt activate..
at my first corner i do a two finger light but quick touch on the front
to activate the abs, makes a sort of click sound at the brake,
just to check its working, but when manoevering backwards
or braking softly with front brake, no click, front only..

this is just my impressions and not a thorough testing
but seems that you do still retain good control options
other than when you use fast stopping pressure,
when it fires off all brake pads...

what you get is similar to controlled release of pressure as wheel locks
and skid starts, ie, it senses the lockup and releases, momentarily,
then repeats that response whenever the wheel starts to lock up..
having said that, it is only on the level of microseconds
and while the brake is not, locking, braking continues
as usual for any good brake system functioning normally..

i recommend anyone thinking of abs but hesitant etc
to take a few abs bikes for test rides.. plenty have abs now..
for day to day riding i believe you would be hard pressed
to know you had abs or not, except for the activation click
mentioned, which isnt a problem, just a reminder..
 
#15 · (Edited)
You have ridden for 10 yrs, so give it a try, you'll love the novelty.

Here is my take on it, (first bike with abs in 40+ bikes)-

The Good-
Its fun to push to crazy limits,
Works well,
An experienced rider will feel what its doing and be able to take advantage of it,
it's more sophisticated than the $500 price suggests,
Has a nice front caliper with a bigger pad area and better feel than the poverty pack version.
you recoup the price back in resale (and insurance with some companies) anyway.

The Bad-
The combined part works, but is as useless as tits on a bull if it makes riders too heavy on the rear brake.
Heavy,
cant fit a headlift stand. (but thats only for track riding mostly)




ABS is a double edged sword for new riders,
It may save them,
but they wont know why it saved them, (but not your issue)
And when they get on their Gixxer 1000 in 3 months time ('because the cbr cant go on the highway' lol :eek: )
they will bin their shyt in spectacular fashion :(.


Sadly for me its the the reason I have to sell my 'Lil black nugget,
(But I didnt know at the time that I'd end up not road riding on it eventually)
 
#19 ·
You have ridden for 10 yrs, so give it a try, you'll love the novelty.

Here is my take on it, (first bike with abs in 40+ bikes)-

The Good-
Its fun to push to crazy limits,
Works well,
An experienced rider will feel what its doing and be able to take advantage of it,
it's more sophisticated than the $500 price suggests,
Has a nice front caliper with a bigger pad area and better feel than the poverty pack version.
you recoup the price back in resale (and insurance with some companies) anyway.

The Bad-
The combined part works, but is as useless as tits on a bull if it makes riders too heavy on the rear brake.
Heavy,
cant fit a headlift stand. (but thats only for track riding mostly)




ABS is a double edged sword for new riders,
It may save them,
but they wont know why it saved them, (but not your issue)
And when they get on their Gixxer 1000 in 3 months time ('because the cbr cant go on the highway' lol :eek: )
they will bin their shyt in spectacular fashion
:(.


Sadly for me its the the reason I have to sell my 'Lil black nugget,
(But I didnt know at the time that I'd end up not road riding on it eventually)

HAHAHAHA, thanks Aufitt!! I don't care who you are, that's funny right there!
 
#16 ·
Non-ABS = 2 piston caliper
ABS = 3 piston caliper

So the brakes in general are set up better like Aufitt said, so you get ABS brakes, bigger brakes on the front and the combined system for $500. I personally have never even noticed the combined system. It's not like i hit the rear brakes and go "well that felt weird on the front, like the nose dived down". I have braked hard and the front ABS is yet to come on i believe because you really have to try to get the front ABS on in the dry, but the rear has come on about 10 times quickly because it comes on really quickly.

It's also fun to ride in my driveway and onto my back grass are when it's been raining and the ground is really slippery and just jab on the brakes for shits and gigs and feel the system working :p although it feels very uncomfortable if you pull the levers as hard as you can where there is like no traction so i wouldn't recommend it. Also if you don't like the system, just pull the fuse out and do some skids and stoppies :cool:

Overall i like the feeling of being at ease and the confidence in my braking it provides as i know that the wheels won't lock up, however i don't go out of my way to slam the brakes on because i bought the ABS version, that's just stupid so i still brake normally but if i happen to overstep the mark it can assist me. But don't think because you have ABS you can just hit the levers as hard as you can and expect it to do the work for you, it's a bad habit to get into because as soon as you test ride your mates R6 without ABS...good luck ;)
 
#18 ·
Non abs makes you more careful I think, yes it's handy to have in heavy rain but who wants to ride in those conditions at ten tenths anyway.
For $500 get it or save the $$$ & get frame sliders or even better advanced driver Ed ???
 
#23 ·
ABS is going to be mandatory on all motorcycles sold in Europe by 2014, if I remember correctly. The law was based on the safety stats which have proven the efficacy of ABS. When in a panic stop situation the last thing on a person's mind is to not brake too hard. Only professional and maybe a few amature racers can keep their head well enough in an impending accident to not over brake without ABS and it's only because they drive at the max capabilities of their vehicle on a regular basis. If you don't race at least weekly, I would recommend ABS. I have confidence that given enough practice, I could stop better than the ABS, but I don't have that much time to practice, so I went with the ABS.

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#25 ·
When in a panic stop situation the last thing on a person's mind is to not brake too hard. Only professional and maybe a few amature racers can keep their head well enough in an impending accident to not over brake without ABS and it's only because they drive at the max capabilities of their vehicle on a regular basis. If you don't race at least weekly, I would recommend ABS.
you serious? only racers know how to brake properly without locking up? before i had my cbr250r i had a Yamaha DT175 trail bike i rode on the road with a much worse braking system than the cbr, with a drum brake on the rear. I had to panic stop a few times and came inches from an accident but i applied maximum braking and no i didn't lock up the brakes. On my cbr when i've had to hit the skids i haven't locked up the front either in a e-stop.

So by your judgement because i'm not a professional or a racer; i can't keep my head well enough to not over brake? if you are over-braking in an e-stop often and are requiring ABS to kick in a lot because you are just jabbing on the brakes i would recommend practicing braking because when you go ride on your buddy's R6 and a car pulls out on you, good luck! ;)

such an ignorant post.
 
#24 ·
it isnt only wet conditions, but gravel, leaves, road kills, metal plates/covers,
oil spills, anything that moves over the road, any garbage tossed out a car
window, anything.. hard braking on just smooth road can induce locks..

when your wheel dont, lock or begin to lock, brakes function normally..
experienced racers will respond to impending locks by subtle easing
of input to avoid the locking but continue braking when no locking,,
so the abs under potential locking/skidding situations sort of
mimics what the skilled racer would do anyway...

you can do stoppies on dry road surfaces, as i discovered in my
one in your face emergency stop, no skidding [no tire marks]
and the momentary releases of the abs were not obvious
and at the end moment of the braking sequence she
carried her mass and momentum forward which resulted
in rear of motorcycle lifting up about 30 or so degrees..

in other strong braking such as mid roundabout when
some prawn decided he wanted my space [etc]
she has handled it very well, with stability
and excellent stopping or very fast slowing
to almost stop.. very reassuring..

to repeat, everyone has different riding habits
including braking etc, so, if at all interested
take a few abs bikes for test rides..
the proof is in [your] pudding :)
 
#27 ·
I've moderated my stance on ABS over the last couple of years, but I'll say this - as I've said in every ABS thread for the last couple of years:
  • ABS gives a novice more control during stopping, especially on slippery and/or uneven sufaces.
  • If you think that ABS relieves you of the need to learn how to brake effectively, you're ignorant.
  • If you think that ABS will allow you to ride like an idiot and get away with it, you're stupid.

There is no secret to staying alive on a motorcycle - there are reams of information that can tell you how to love it and live. However, if you put yourself in situations more than once in a blue moon where you need ABS to save your butt, then you're going to die or be seriously injured.

ABS is a tool - and just like any tool, relying on it to the exclusion of skill and technique will result in tragedy. I see it in the firefighters I teach - the gear is oh-so-good, they have thermal imaging devices, they have alert devices - but the sad reality is that if you make a habit of going too far into a structure fire depending on these innovations, you will die - in the same way that many firefighters have died before. Every year, the Line-of-duty death reports by the USFA bear this out.

So if you want it, get ABS - but remember that your 12-second scan, your situational awareness, your skill at anticipating the idiotic maneuvers of drivers - all will serve you better than ABS. If ABS kicks in, odds are you screwed up. And if you make a habit of screwing up, you're going to eventually lose - no matter how many neat gadgets you have.

Use ABS as a last resort - not as a crutch.

Luke
 
#29 ·
I'd add one more thing to Luke's main points:

- On two wheels (unlike on four) ABS does not help maintain control when changing direction.

ABS is a no-brainer in cars because you can slam on the brakes and maintain directional control. As long as the wheels are going around in a car you can generally steer it. Once the wheels lock up in a car you lose traction and steering. ABS in cars can make up for deficiencies in driving skills.

On a motorcycle, applying the brakes too heavily while changing direction will see you off long before the brakes lock up.

One school of thought is that you should not be on the brakes at all when manoeuvring, which is probably most straight forward for a novice. Others accept a certain amount of "trail braking" going into a corner.

The oft quoted statistics on bikes with ABS are flawed. They come from a few motorcycles at the top end of the market, several years ago. Most would have been owned by older and more experienced riders, who tend to feature less in accident figures anyway.

Obviously ABS on a bike can help in some situations, but it is no substitute for learning handling skills........ and, more importantly, developing the road-craft skills to avoid the need for a quick stop in the first place.
 
#28 ·
ok, keep getting this 'abs vs non abs' thing, as if its some contest..
also that abs fitted bikes arent as good on non slippery surfaces..
so take a cbr250r with abs, the difference is slight extra weight,
plus 3 front brake calipers instead of 2 on non abs front brake..

otherwise, in general stopping and in fast stopping where
the wheel does not start to lock, they are the same except for
the extra caliper up front on the abs system..
because abs senses wheel lock up and momentarily releases
pressure, then reapplies it in virtually the same instant as
the wheel continues to move, doesnt mean anything
as far as non-locking braking goes..

until you start to lock up the wheel, its a normal
braking system [with an extra front caliper]..

i researched this before buying, a bit concerned about
losing some rider control [4 previous road hondas]
but after finding out the facts including actual test riding
by experienced motorcycle journalists including experienced
racers, i was convinced that this is a worthwhile bit of tech,
with virtually no real downsides, and that i wouldnt [and did not]
lose control of my braking, including in real emergency stopping..

other than lockup situations, which are of course serious for motorcycles[!]
any, rider should treat braking with the importance it obviously deserves,
and gain braking skills thru practice braking as for any other skill..

i dont even think of my brakes as different, rather ride the same way
ive always riden, including with care on wet and slippery surfaces..
repeating the same advice to anyone with any queries about abs;
go to your dealer and take a few abs bikes for test rides..
anything others can say in text here must be limited
compared to the real life in-the-moment experience
of actually testing the system, for yourself..
 
#32 ·
By the way - the video on page one is crap - obviously put together by someone who wants ABS. The rider on the non-abs cycle is locking up both brakes solid and holding them with no attempt whatsoever to modulate. On the other hand, the ABS rider obviously didn't have a whole lot of faith in the technology, because he releases the brake on his stop (obvious from the change in fork compression). This is no different than NBC wiring model rocket motors to GM truck gas tanks.

There are credible ABS tests out there using skilled and unskilled riders - and they consistently show that inexperienced riders have a significant benefit from ABS. Experienced riders benefit less from the device, but it still has advantages, especially if you have an unexpected panic stop.

My main dislike of ABS is that it promotes laziness - riders, especially new ones, tend to depend on the technology instead of learning the skills they need to become better riders. The most destabilizing thing that you can do to a motorcycle is apply the brakes, yet some people still believe they have "mastered" a machine without any real knowledge of the physical forces associated with braking. If you fail to learn this, you may become a competent rider, but you will never be a skilled one.
 
#33 ·
By the way - the video on page one is crap - obviously put together by someone who wants ABS. The rider on the non-abs cycle is locking up both brakes solid and holding them with no attempt whatsoever to modulate. ...
Hmm, sounds exactly like what a new, unskilled rider would do in an emergency to me, as you go on to say.

My view is If you can afford it, it's an extra level of safety, so why not go for it?


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#34 ·
What is that same unskilled rider going to do when his front tire starts chirping and the bike starts shuddering? Odds are it won't be what you think - and it won't be what he thought either, if he gets his first heavy braking lesson with no room for error...

By the way, I never said don't get it - I said that it's a mistake to depend on it instead of skill.
 
#37 ·
I think that ABS is another good safety measure, even for us experienced riders. I think it's good for beginners as well. There is no way that even the best riders in the world can judge the optimal braking distance of their bikes, at many different speeds, on many different surfaces, in many different weathers. In the real world, in an emergency, no matter who you are, ABS will stop you quicker. If you're a learner, and your ABS is coming on regularly, you're braking too hard. It's better to learn this way, than to bin it every time you brake too hard. Whether you're experienced, or a learner, it's satisfying to know that in an emergency, you can just slam your brakes on as hard as you like, you will stop as quickly as possible, and you won't bin it because you did. ;)
 
#39 ·
I don't understand why people say that ABS is not good because you can't learn the proper braking techniques.... ABS ONLY kicks in IF you are doing it wrong and locking up the wheels. I say this is the BEST way to learn. If you never lock your wheels you will not even notice that you have ABS.

Recommended to get ABS... it is such a small investment and the benifits for the average rider are huge.
 
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