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My CBR250's engine turns off when Downshifting!!!

330K views 1K replies 228 participants last post by  REDRANGER 
#1 ·
I bought my CBR250 this summer, and from the start I've been having the same problem(about 25 times as of now). When I'm coming to a light(or just slowing down), I pull the clutch in, then begin brake and downshift, then the engine just turns off. The electrical panel and lights are on but the engine just stalls out. I was frustrated so I searched the web and low and behold many people on this forum have the same type of problem I'm having. So after the more than a dozen times this happened to me I brought it back the to dealership at about 400 miles for the first "600" mile tune up and to check on the problem. The dealership adjust the valves per the tune up and test road the bike, but were unable to replicate the problem. I then got the bike back to once again experience the same unforced stalling of the engine. So I brought it back and the dealership was unable to replicate the problem once again, so I went there and I was able to replicate the issue at the dealership. A very nice honda regional representative came down the following week to look at the bike, I then went to the dealership and attempted to replicate the problem again but was unable to on that lovely rainy cold day! The Honda representative returned the next week and brought a special diagnostic tool and hooked it up to the bike, to some port on the back of the bike. This tool showed like everything going on with the bike at the time and he spent a day on the bike but could not replicate the problem. Once again I went to the dealership and tried to replicate the problem with the special attached tool but was unable too. Everything diagnostically checked out fine, so I took the bike back still frustrated, not even the next day it happened to me 2 times while riding. In fact one of the time I was in 4th gear at about 45 miles per hour, pulled the clutch in, waited a second then shift down 1 gear, and sure enough the engine once again just turned off. So 2 days later I ordered some video equipment and had it shipped to me. First try was unsuccessful, but the next day I GOT IT ON TAPE :) Here it is enjoy:



I was told on the phone by Honda that the people's post on this site related to this problem, could not be reliable because "Honda doesn't like to speculate on internet rumors". So if you are someone who has experience this same problem I have and can relate to my video above, please post and let me know.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Once

Mine has only done it once in 5,000 miles. At 1000 miles? Fully warm engine after 5 minutes of travel on a clear 50F morning. I was cruising in 6th at 45 mph, so no where near any stalling rpm of the engine. Approaching a right hand turn with a yield sign to enter the on ramp to the highway. Pulled in the clutch to coast around the corner and drop down two gears. When I started to let out the clutch, I noticed the engine had stalled. I recognized what had happened immediately thanks to this forum :), pulled the clutch in right away, keyed the starter, and rode on. Not very handy if you are trying to kick down two as you are whipping into the passing lane. One guy almost got killed. I think it is related to the decel fuel shut off feature that all modern fuel injected engines have. Fuel injection is shut off any time the rpms are above a certain value and the throttle is closed, and starts again when the rpms drop below a set value such as 2000 rpm. The start up of injection sometimes isn't catching it in time. Or, the "rest" setting of the idle air valve is too low. Honda would need to flash the fuel computer with a safer map rpm value for the beginning of injection to fix it or maybe change the idle air valve or both. This is a big ask for any automotive company as any changes to fuel control will require recertifying the emissions. This fuel system is already installed on millions of Honda scooters but they are all CVT transmission and have 1/2 the displacement so would probably never act up.
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http://www.cbr250.net/forum/cbr250-problems-issues/987-unforced-stalling.html
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http://www.cbr250.net/forum/cbr250-...when-downshifting-1-while-holding-clutch.html
 
#4 ·
So I'm noticing a trend, that I hope honda will pick up on!! And I'm glad I don't feel crazy, I almost did dealing with this whole situation. I'm thinking it's something related to what you are talking about or it's the angle of the road like a 15% incline I've noticed it more on. Maybe there are certain angles the counterbalance doesn't work at? All I know after dealing with Honda and reading MULTI peoples post about this happening, is that I believe there is something wrong with this bike. I've actually had the bike shut off on me in really dangerous situations, but how long before this bike made for "beginners" actually gets someone hurt or killed? I mean if I was a new rider and the bike shut off on me, I might not be able to figure out what to do. Actually I would prolly become panick/freeze up, seeing as this is not something I would have ever experienced or seen before, but that's not gonna stop the 18 wheeler behind me, from turning me into a pancake!!!
 
#5 ·
Sorry this is my first post. I am really enjoying my first motorcycle. However, I too am experiencing this problem.

My bike has 850 miles on it and I have had this happen about 20 times, usually at least once each ride. Although there have been some rides when it hasn't happened at all it usually does it at least once. It doesn't seem to matter if it's warmed up or not because it has happened at the beginning of a ride as well as after at least a half hour of riding. It does seem to be related to a rapid closing of the throttle.
 
#14 ·
I think you're our best chance of understanding the issue. I assume you're a new rider too, is that correct? Either way, observe your slowing procedure and I think you'll find something slightly off when the engine dies, maybe your foot slips a little and hits the kickstand or something.

Keith Code has an anecdote where a rider complains about something happening every four laps and he is like "Nothing mechanical happens every three to four laps, you are doing something to the bike every three or four laps."
 
#7 ·
Wow you sound like you're have the exact same problem as me. Just like many other people on this forum. I would say give it back to the dealership and tell them it's BS what's happening with it. If they can't replicate it then send them the link to my YouTube video and tell them this is what you're experiencing. This way you don't have to go through all the time I did trying to replicate it for them. I was told the post here about this problem are "Internet rumors" per Honda (thanks Michelle at honda). So show them the video and tell them "This isn't a rumor, seeing is believing"!!
 
#8 ·
Not sure I can see any situation to pull a clutch fully in, and snap off the thottle fully, on a motorcycle while its moving unless its to stop in first gear.

Be smooth rolling off the throttle,
only pull the clutch in 1/3-1/2 way between gear changes.

Mine stalled when it had 20km on it riding it home as I pulled into the drive.. my fault for not being smooth with an unfamiliar brand new single cylinder engine.
 
#9 ·
As you can see I'm coming to a light that is turning red, and as I learned in my drivers education class; when coming to a light that you must stop at, pull the clutch in and break to the light as you shift down to 1st gear so you can begin riding again when able. I normally don't ride like this but I was trying to show the problem I've been having. Bottom line though, after I pull the clutch in and the engine is technically idling/disengaged now, and provide I'm not reving the engine, WHY would the bike shut off? The motor is out of the equation with the clutch pulled in, so no matter what I do, shift up, down, brake, coast along, there is no excuse for why the engine should just shut off. This is my 3rd motorcycle I've owned and 5th bike I've ridden and I've never had a problem like this before.
 
#13 ·
Typically, mechanical things like this don't just pop up randomly on their own. I think it is something we are doing as riders. Mine spans multiple brands and batches of gas, but it's not so frequent I think there is a problem with the bike. It's more something I'm unaware of doing when I am coming to a stop.
 
#16 ·
Happened to me prolly 10 plus times.
Accelerating and decelerating.
I made a post on here a few weeks back.
I jist let clutch out and it fires right back up.
 
#18 ·
That is definitely a fix for it, however I really don't think you should have to do this on a Brand new bike. I mean if it's an older bike then sure it's gotta funky things you have to do with it, but not a brand new "highly technological" motorcycle. As far as I'm concerned the engine shouldn't be shutting off while riding it, until I turn it off. This "uncontrollable" event will eventually cause harm to someone down the line.
 
#19 ·
650 miles on mine and I've been experiencing the same problem everytime I ride since about mile 200. I just got back from talking to the tech at the dealer who was totally dumbfounded. Told him I could guarantee he could replicate it. Taking it back Tuesday to leave it overnight for them. Mine also seems to take forver to warm up and takes everything I have to keep it running in stop and go traffic leaving my work.
 
#20 ·
If possible: nshorvath, HoPMiX, Robbo14, daveoh, tollarja, and anyone this applies to reading on this forum post. Please message me your locations(so I can see if maybe this is a bad batch in a certain area), and names/info(Emails, phone numbers) of anyone from Honda Corporation who you've talked to about this problem. I've been told via phone and honda rep/dealership that I'm the first one that they've heard of reporting the problem. Maybe I can help to connect some people at Honda this way!
 
#84 ·
If possible: nshorvath, HoPMiX, Robbo14, daveoh, tollarja, and anyone this applies to reading on this forum post. Please message me your locations(so I can see if maybe this is a bad batch in a certain area), and names/info(Emails, phone numbers) of anyone from Honda Corporation who you've talked to about this problem. I've been told via phone and honda rep/dealership that I'm the first one that they've heard of reporting the problem. Maybe I can help to connect some people at Honda this way!
I am not a happy camper either on this matter! The bike stalled on me 3 times today!!!!!!!!!! This has happens to me before, but never 3 times like this. I called Holister Honda, the dealer I purchased the bike and talked to Niel Zook, sales guy about it. He told me he hear and read about this problem before. He suggested for me to bring the bike to the dealer and have it check out. I am going to do this after the holiday is over.

I hope Honda will have some kind of solutions and fix the problem. I don't feel safe at all....
 
#43 ·
Thanks for the mention. When my bike is cold it and it's cooler outside, my bike will stall frequently; several times until it has 3 temp marks.

I haven't tried it yet, but you can go into the Bazzaz software and easily subtract fuel in the lower RPM/throttle cells in case it is running too rich. Cooler temps make it run richer, so it makes sense to lean it out.

I'll try it over the next week and report back.
 
#26 ·
I can almost guarentee this happens because the bike is tuned to run semi lean for gas mileage. If the fuel isn't 100% good fuel then it could cause the occasional misfire, being a single cylinder bike 1 misfire can stall it.

I've actually not run into the problem (except when the motor is still cold but that's my fault) Try only running Shell gas. Add a quality fuel stabilizer if necessary. The octane doesn't matter but I usually run a higher one.
 
#27 · (Edited)
The fuel which was in the tank was purchased and fill the previous day 7/16 from a mobil station I believe. The video was taken the next day 7/17. The single cylinder misfiring issue I had thought about before, but 2 things. First this motorcycle was created with a counterbalance shaft which I think might negate this problem:

"Because it features a counterbalancer, the CBR250R engine is a smooth
runner. You get the narrow overall width and power advantages of a
single along with the smoothness of a multi-cylinder bike."
Per Honda's website

Second if you are saying that a misfire occurred at the point of idle (the clutch being pulled in). Then in theory if I sat with the bike idling and holding the clutch in, or just in neutral, eventually it would just misfire and turn off. Yet it has never happened that way. It has only happened when I pulled the clutch in and then downshifted, whether breaking to a light or just coasting along. Also, as for running shell gasoline only, through a $5k bike, I don't see the point of that when the manual says it takes 87 octane and it's built for good "gas mileage". Why would I concern myself for looking for shell gas stations all the time :(
 
#30 ·
Mine had stalled twice exactly like this when it was new and there was under 400 miles on the odometer...hasn't done it again and I now have almost 4000 miles on it.....

I did get some bad gas once (water)...still didnt make it stall, ran like a top after it started....just didnt want to start after sittin a couple days in cold weather..would crank and crank but not catch till after several minutes of trying...that happened twice also..an ounce or so of STP gas treatment goes in the tank with every fill up now
 
#32 ·
Well I'm glad to hear someone isn't having the same problem as me. As for the rattling I also had the same problem, but that issue was able to be resolved. It was the instrumentation panel that was not sitting correctly and the dealership just tightened it up, after that no more rattle!
 
#35 ·
When you are smooth on the throttle with a 4 stroke single cyl bike this wont happen.

Should try a big 4 stroke enduro bike.. shut off quick.. and lights out every time.

Also, most of the complaints here are on a new bike with less than 1000 miles right?
 
#37 · (Edited)
I'm confused as to what you mean about "smooth on the throttle". When I'm pulling the clutch in, then braking with my right hand/right foot, I'm not smooth or hard on the throttle. Infact I'm doing nothing with the throttle because I'm BRAKING. I'm not sure if you're saying that when you are braking with the clutch pulled in you are then smoothly reving the engine at the same time? That I assume would be hard to do seeing that you have apply pressure with your right hand on the brake and the throttle at the same time. As you can see from my video the engine is at 5k to 6k rpm at least, then I pull the clutch in and downshift/brake(causing the bike engine to turn off). At this point I see the tachometer smoothly go to 0, because the engine has stalled for no reason.

As for the bike being under 1000 miles, that might have something to do with it "not being worn in". However this is the time when it's most scary/dangerous to have the motorcycle turn off, seeing as this is when beginners are beginning to learn or people are learning to use the bike in general. You don't need to throw in a random uncontrollable engine power loss in on top of that. Learning how to ride a bike or learning a new bike is hard enough already without this problem.
 
#40 ·
This has happened to me once as well, but only once, when the engine cut off while decelerating (with the clutch pulled in) for no apparent reason. It feels like a cold carburetted engine cutting off at low rpm. Fortunately it has not happened since.

The engine is not supposed to cut off like that no matter how you go off the throttle. It's just downright dangerous and leaves you with no drive where it is critical, like at an intersection. Now that you have the video, I hope the problem gets resolved. Sometimes when the service centre cannot actually SEE what the problem is they are reluctant to open things up on a "voyage of discovery" as it were.

Best of luck!
 
#45 ·
This is not rider error. There is a flaw with the bike. Are there ways to work around it and make it less of a problem? Maybe. But that doesn't mean we should just ignore it and live with it without saying anything.
I would agree with this statement. I know blipping the throttle and downshifting is the recommended method for slowing down and it seems to minimize the chance of this stall occurring. However, if someone wants to pull in the clutch, release the throttle and hit the brakes they probably should be able to without the engine dying. Especially if they're a beginner or it's a panic stop.
 
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