CBR250R Spark Plug Failure and Subsequent Valve Train Damage - Honda CBR250R Forum : Honda CBR 250 Forums
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post #1 of 89 Old 09-29-2016, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation CBR250R Tight Valves, Spark Plug Failure, and Top End Damage

So about a week I hopped on my bike headed to work. I stopped at the local fuel station that has non-ethanol fuel, and topped off the tank. After filling up, I started losing power, and limped the rest of the way to work. It died at a stop sign, I pushed it to the top of the overpass just before work, and coasted down eased the clutch out, and got it going. When I stopped to show my identification, it died again.

I made arrangements and trailered it home. I pumped all of the fuel out, and removed the tank. I went to my local Honda dealer and ordered 06160-KYJ-920 Fuel Filter Kit for $55 (yikes). Today I received a call from the parts manager letting me know that the filters were back ordered.

With the filter being on the suction side of the fuel pump, is there any reason I cannot replace the filter with a standard Honda 16900-MG8-003 fuel filter?

UPDATE 1


I'll try to cover everyone's questions.

First, the bike ran fine the last time I took it out, which admittedly was a couple of months ago due to all of the rain we have been getting lately. The bike started and ran fine for the five miles or so that it took to get to the gas station, and gave the first signs of distress were very shortly after.

Second, there is a faint "tide line" inside the tank at around half a tank of what looks like varnish. I almost always park the bike with a full tank, so I don't know how long that has been there. Otherwise, the tank looks typical.

Here is a coincidence, when I pulled the rider's seat, my peg puck had fallen down near the intake snorkel...

I took several measurements, and verified that the filter is indeed on the suction side of the pump. I will replace the filter with the proper one when it comes in, but this one should make do to verify whether or not I have other issues, low voltage, weak fuel pump, etc.

The filter is close enough in length, but I added a layer of foam tape to get the diameter right. This filter fits scores of other Honda motorcycles including Goldwings and SuperSports, so I do not believe that volume or capacity will be an issue.













UPDATE 2

So, here's a little update. The problem does not look to have been fuel related at all.

Since I wanted to cover all of my bases, I picked up a fuel and air filter, and a spark plug.

While I already had the tank off, it would be an opportune time to change the spark plug, remove the PAIR valve and install the block-off plate.

When I pulled the spark plug, my heart sank. It suddenly occurred to me what was causing the problem...




Since I figured that any damage that had been done was done, I swapped the plug, reinstalled the fuel tank, and poured in a gallon of fresh fuel.

I cycled the key several times to ensure that the fuel system was primed, and hit the start button.

The engine turned over fine, I got one pop, but the engine did not start...

I've got to head over to my dad's place and pick up my compression gauge and spark tester. Hopefully I have a 10mm adapter for the compression gauge.

Now my big concern is how much damage that little piece of ground electrode did bouncing around in there.

UPDATE 3

Looks like I've put 77 miles on the bike since I got it out of storage and to the new house. Which is about right, a quick ride after unloading it to a friend's house that's 15 or so miles away, a couple of trips around the block, and a trip to work.



Now for the bad news...

Less than 15PSI compression.



UPDATE 4:

I verified top dead center.


I verified that the cams were in the correct cycle. The lines don' exactly line up with the top of the head, hmmm.




I removed the cap that retains the rocker arm shaft, and used one of the cam cover bolts to extract it while pushing down on the valves with my thumb to relieve the tension.


I then removed the shims from the top of the valve stems.



To test to see if the intake valves seated now that the rocker arm wasn't in contact, I filled the intake port with some two-stroke fuel. The right valve leaks more than the left, but both leak.

[/QUOTE]

Last edited by OleKennyRoy; 10-04-2016 at 12:36 PM.
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post #2 of 89 Old 09-29-2016, 09:27 AM
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I wouldn't; just due to line sizes, sealing issues, and stagnant fuel volume differences. Also, if I recall correctly, the fuel filter is actually on the pressure side of the pump, and remains pressurized. I'd wait on the original part to come in personally.

But, bigger question is, how do you know it was the fuel filter? I've never heard of anyone having issues with them, and they are not part of the maintenance schedule. Did you take the original one off and try to blow through it? It just sounds like there could be something else at fault here instead.

If that really is the problem, Partzilla has it for $35. http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detai...0-KYJ-920.html
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Last edited by cbrlocal; 09-29-2016 at 09:34 AM. Reason: added part link
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post #3 of 89 Old 09-29-2016, 09:39 AM
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Not sure about your question, but what does the inside of the tank look like?
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post #4 of 89 Old 09-29-2016, 09:49 AM
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As cbrlocal said, make sure it is in fact a problem with the fuel filter before you throw money down for a new one. It's possible you could have gotten some really crappy gas at that last fill-up. Or there could be something else going on with bike, and it just happened to coincide with the last refueling.

If it is a fuel filter issue (I have my doubts that it is), I think you'd need to get the one specifically designed for the CBR250R. And even though a local dealer doesn't stock it and Honda currently has it on backorder, that doesn't mean that one of the big online dealers won't have it in stock and ready to ship.

You could give Partzilla a call and ask them if they have it in stock in their own warehouse: 06160-KYJ-920 FILTER KIT, FUEL $35.76

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post #5 of 89 Old 09-29-2016, 10:15 AM
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I'm curious....cbrlocal and MotoMike seem skeptical that the problem could be the gas filter.
cbrlocal even says "I've never heard of anyone having issues with them, and they are not part of the maintenance schedule."
I'm just wondering why something so vital to the performance of the bike has become so reliable since I began riding in the 1980s.
When I started riding gas filters being clogged were a lot more common (of course we had petcocks back then too).
Is it simply because gasoline is refined better these days and much better quality than we used to deal with decades ago?
Or perhaps because the cutting-edge additives that have come along in the modern era keep the fuel system that much cleaner?
It used to be that if your bike died while operating a clogged gas filter was one of the FIRST things you'd suspect.
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post #6 of 89 Old 09-29-2016, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueFaith View Post
I'm curious....cbrlocal and MotoMike seem skeptical that the problem could be the gas filter.
cbrlocal even says "I've never heard of anyone having issues with them, and they are not part of the maintenance schedule."
I'm just wondering why something so vital to the performance of the bike has become so reliable since I began riding in the 1980s.
When I started riding gas filters being clogged were a lot more common (of course we had petcocks back then too).
Is it simply because gasoline is refined better these days and much better quality than we used to deal with decades ago?
Or perhaps because the cutting-edge additives that have come along in the modern era keep the fuel system that much cleaner?
It used to be that if your bike died while operating a clogged gas filter was one of the FIRST things you'd suspect.
In my experience with maintaining gravity feed carbureted fuel systems, it was pretty rare to see an inline fuel filter or fuel petcock bowl/screen so clogged up with gunk or dirt that the flow of fuel would be completely obstructed. That said, it was routine to replace those $2 inline filters and clean out petcock bowls on a fairly regular basis. That was especially true for dirt bikes, which are just prone to collecting crap in the fuel tank due to the operating environment. On older street bikes, rust forming inside the steel fuel tank and then flaking off was a big culprit.

Aside from the problem of dirt in the tank, when it comes to operating/ride-ability problems with old school carburetor systems, it was typically a case of either bad gas (stale 'low volatility' gas, or water contaminated fuel), or simply very old gas left in the carb bowl turning to varnish during storage, and gumming up the jets and internal passageways to the point that even if the bike starts, it won't take throttle input.

As for the OP's issue with his EFI equipped CBR250R I'm thinking it could be bad gas, perhaps water contaminated, as a possible cause. It could also be a case of low voltage at the fuel injector causing the engine to die. But those are just "internet guesses"... even for those of us who are old motorcycle wrenches with years of experience, it's often difficult or impossible to accurately diagnose a problem on a bike that is not right in front of you in the shop.
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Last edited by MotoMike; 09-30-2016 at 07:18 AM. Reason: typos
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post #7 of 89 Old 09-29-2016, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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I'll try to cover everyone's questions.

First, the bike ran fine the last time I took it out, which admittedly was a couple of months ago due to all of the rain we have been getting lately. The bike started and ran fine for the five miles or so that it took to get to the gas station, and gave the first signs of distress were very shortly after.

Second, there is a faint "tide line" inside the tank at around half a tank of what looks like varnish. I almost always park the bike with a full tank, so I don't know how long that has been there. Otherwise, the tank looks typical.

Here is a coincidence, when I pulled the rider's seat, my peg puck had fallen down near the intake snorkel...

I took several measurements, and verified that the filter is indeed on the suction side of the pump. I will replace the filter with the proper one when it comes in, but this one should make do to verify whether or not I have other issues, low voltage, weak fuel pump, etc.

The filter is close enough in length, but I added a layer of foam tape to get the diameter right. This filter fits scores of other Honda motorcycles including Goldwings and SuperSports, so I do not believe that volume or capacity will be an issue.













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post #8 of 89 Old 09-29-2016, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleKennyRoy View Post
... Here is a coincidence, when I pulled the rider's seat, my peg puck had fallen down near the intake snorkel...
So did you remove the side stand puck from the area of the air box snorkel and try running the bike again, before taking apart the fuel tank, pump and filter? That puck blocking the intake snorkel would certainly explain why the bike wasn't running right.

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post #9 of 89 Old 09-29-2016, 02:21 PM
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If the tank isn't bad inside, I would doubt you would need a new filter.

I'm thinking you have (had) water/condensation in the tank and it got stirred-up when you filled the tank.

I'd try new gas, and keep an eye on the level (you said you do). I might also look at the seal and drain around the gas cap to see if there's a possibility that rain water could enter the tank instead of draining.
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post #10 of 89 Old 09-29-2016, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Puck has been removed.
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CBR250R Repsol Edition
CBR600RR Foot Pegs
Hella Supertone
Honda Race Kit Rearset Set Back Plates
Graves Mostorsports PAIR Eliminator
R&G Tail Tidy
Termignoni Collector and Conical Exhaust


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