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Bad habits

8K views 40 replies 26 participants last post by  olhogrider 
#1 ·
I have made it known that I am very much new to riding. I have been riding around my yard, a nearby parking lot and in my neighborhood. I take my msf course this weekend. I keep hearing talk of "bad habits" that we're exposed after taking msf course. What exactly are these bad habits.
 
#2 · (Edited)
The MSF course will probably clarify a lot of things. You might ask that question and ask for specific examples.

I just completed the course a few weeks ago. I am glad I took it and didn't try to learn from someone else. Lots of information to absorb in the class. Ask lots of questions.

I assume bad habits are things you get used to doing that are not the safest things to be doing, especially when you get into a pinch. THey may work most of the time, until something happens.

Even though I am a novice, I would offer a specific example--primarily using the rear brake to stop. They hammered that into us during the class. Always use both brakes, unless you are doing really low speed manuevres, where a light touch on the rear brakes is better than grabbing a handfull of front brake and falling over.

I have been doing a lot of reading online regarding safety and technique. There are a lot of folks who say they are afraid of using the front brake because they don't want to lock the front tire up and do a high-side or go over the bars. However, the rear brakes only supply so much stopping power. About 75% of braking power comes from the front brakes. If you are conditioning yourself to rely on the rear brakes, it will probably work most of the time, until you get into a panic stop situation and instincively rely on the rear brakes and can't stop in time. Then you might panic and grab a serious handful of front brake when you realize that your rear brake isn't stopping you fast enough. Then you do flip over the bars. Or you just forget or don't think about using the front brake and go veering into whatever it is you are trying to avoid.

I am the opposite. I am starting to use the front brake exclusively and am forgetting about the rear brake. I worked on some drills this past weekend trying to get a feel for how much braking power I get for each set and trying to remember to use both.
 
#3 ·
Brake abuse is a good example of a bad habit. I will tell you that the 75% rule is a bit outdated though - modern disc-brake bikes can do 100%... and beyond.

These examples may be a bit more advanced in some cases than simply riding aroudn the yard and driveway, but some other things that folks can get into trouble with:

- Keep loose. Your entire torso, shoulders, arms, and grip should be relaxed at all times. Tensing up makes things worse in about 2 dozen different ways.

- Looking at the road just ahead of you, not looking far enough ahead of you. You are moving further down the line than the patch of tarmac in front of your tire. Looks where you want to go. If you want to go to the end of the block, look to the end of the block. Get the big picture. Look down, go down.

- Thinking your mirror gives you an idea of what's going on behind you. A mirror can only be trusted to tell you it's not safe, it can never be trusted to tell you that it IS safe. Check blind spots, be aware of what's happening behind you as well as in front.

Just a few examples. You may be doing them already and not realize it. Even if you're in a class you may be doing it but not realize it. Luckily your trainer knows how to spot it and coach you on it.

Don't over-do it on your own. It can also make you fearful of the bike because you encounter an issue that you cannot overcome entirely on your own, which will make you more anxious when you get to class and will give you mental blocks on some things.
 
#6 ·
Based on the emphasis they put on it at MSF, novice bad habits not yet mentioned might be:

- not shifting down through the gears and into to first as you come to a stop
- not leaning into turns/not using normal cornering technique
- sitting in neutral at stoplights
 
#8 ·
I definitely have a death grip on the hande bars.....lol.....I'm slowly getting better though. I would imagine that at this point I'm not comfortable enough to focus all of my attention looking ahead at what's to come, which is exactly why I'm staying in the neighborhood and in the yard. I'm heading the advice I was given when I bought the bike. The salesman told me not to take it out on the roads until I could everything on the bike without thinking. That sounds like wise advice since all of your attention should be on the road ahead, cars etc.
 
#11 ·
my 2 habits i should get rid of even after taking the MSF course is:

1) neutral at lights when no car is to cushion the blow behind me :p even then a truck will pile drive both of us to oblivion
2) Using both brakes simultaneously is a good habit based on the MSF program. I usually use back for subtle braking and slowing, where as my front is more for quick response braking. Though I should get used to both in case of emergencies.
 
#12 ·
Car drivers have a tendency to stomp the (rear) brake pedal when they first get on a bike. They have to learn to squeeze the brake lever. Btw, bicycle brakes are usually backwards from motorcycles too. And don't get me started on countersteering! Try explaining that to a car diver.
 
#13 ·
I tend to routinely still be braking as I start to lean the bike for curves. Mainly a tad of trail braking but still, that's robbing me of cohesion that I might need if something unexpected is just out of view around the corner. I've been trying to break myself of that habit for a year an a half. The road isn't a track and I shouldn't be riding that way.
 
#14 ·
I think you are doing fine like that. Most beginners shouldn't brake while turning because it upsets the balance of the bike. The bike wants to stand up when you brake. As long as you counter that, you'll be ok. Of course you should never ride beyond the limits of your vision or your brakes. I like to imagine that there is a car stalled across both lanes just out of sight. Can I avoid it?
 
#16 ·
That's no BS! (Body Steering)

 
#17 ·
Duck feet and bad foot placement the most common I see riders doing on the road.

2 habits i wound like to shake-

almost every pic shows me with my right pointer finger on the brake lever, its a dirtbike habit I suppose is instinctive, ive asked the coaches and they say it not a huge problem but does not need to be there on the straights, but it does help my transition into rolling off the gas into the braking area.

Another is the 'gyro' on my helmet lol,
I lead with my head well through turns, but its like my head stays level with the horizon... I must fix this.
 
#18 ·
My bad habit? As an enthusiastic manual car driver I heel-toe downshift into corners (when appropriate, anyway).

I did this once on my WeeBee by instinct and very nearly high-sided as, when the engine-brake kicked in the rear tire was on a slippery left turn arrow.

Even the basic handbooks say it, but it's true... don't downshift while cornering. Takes my old-ish bones a bit of retraining but I've not done it since! :)
 
#20 ·
I just passed my full motorcycle license test two days ago. The tester told me that it's not necessary to lane change as quickly as I do. He was trying to advise me to observe more, relax and try a different rhythm. I guess it's something to consider. I mean a person's got to adjust to the road conditions and traffic, and I can and I do, but I like to be quick and clean. The advice was coming from a man who rides a Goldwing, so...
 
#36 ·
Where did Goldwing enter the armored car arena, the bike I owned prior to buying my VTX was a 'Wing, believe me, maneuvering 1200+ pounds, by the time I add my own 250, my wife's 150, and 860 for the 'Wing, is not really all that much different than my CBR, counter-steering, braking, acceleration, all enter into the equation, pretty much in the same ratio as my CBR. I took my first MSF course on a HD Sportster, the instructor was told by another participant that it was easier to take the course in a smaller bike than in one of the bigger bikes. He ran through the obstacle course in his Ultra-Classic, both at twice the speed, and half the speed without a single foot touching the blacktop, on either run. Goldwing's are still equally maneuverable, and exponentially more powerful than our CBR's. Google "Goldwing drill team" you'll be surprised. I had 40,000 plus miles on my 'Wing, much of it in city traffic, in some of the busiest cities, Boston, Chicago, Washington, DC, New York, etc. They are heavier, but not "sluggish".
Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is where to drive in traffic, or, even alone on the road. I learned to ride years before MSF, but the guy that showed me the ropes told me to, as much as possible, stay in the left part of the lane. Reasoning that a person approaching from the opposite direction will be looking in the direction of where a driver will be, to get eye contact. The same theory works when approaching from the front or rear of a traveling vehicle, they'll be looking for a driver, 99.9% of the time, that will be in the left most part of the road. Few people "see" a bike on the right side of the lane, the 'passenger' side if you will.
There is an excellent reason to avoid the center portion of your lane, if an engine blows, or if one is leaking, the oil will be dropped in the center, between the tires of the cages. This is much more hazardous at the beginning, and the first hours during a rain storm. Tires of motorcycles tend to get less surface contact the faster they go, in other words, at X speed, there is, say, 2 square inches, at X times 60 mph, there might be 1/2 square inch, the actual numbers may be different, but the theory is still valid. If we are in the center of the lane at the beginning portion of a rain, then that 1/2 square inch is covered in that oil that surfaces during the rain, oiled tires are not nearly as 'sticky' as dry ones, thus more likely to slip. Staying on the left side, the tires of the cages are picking up the little bit that goes into the left.


Doc
 
#22 ·
Why is sitting in neutral at red lights bad?
If you're sitting at an intersection in neutral and something happens that you need to roll out emergently, you're waisting precious time shifting into 1st.

If you're in 1st already and the car behind you starts hydroplaning (or whatever) through the light you can just go.
 
#26 ·
Bingo bingo.

This also means that you should at least remain aware of the surroundings behind you just as vigilantly (if not moreso) than other directions at least until such time you have a blocker behind you.

Keep in mind the full ready position. Left foot, ground, right foot peg/brake, left hand clutch, right hand is free if needed, but should be returned to the grip when not in use. At worst, you have one hand and a leg that need to move a long, straight motion one time each to get on the move. Best case, only the leg has to come up. And the leg should come up as soon as the wheels are turning.
 
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#28 · (Edited)
I'd say say the biggest thing I see is bikes stopping behind the car ahead of them at lights, instead of on the side/abreast. In traffic, you do not want to get pinned between a couple of SUV's when the car ahead of you get's rear ended by the car behind you. (This is why whitelining reduces fatalities, even if it's illegal outside of CA)

edit: Just thought of this when I saw some scooters today, it's more a scooter/bicyclist thing than motorcycle, but you have to be assertive with your lane. It's kind of a fine line to walk; I don't want to say to ride at cars that enter your lane (I do, I know it's dumb but I'm just really possessive of my lane) unless you have experience and a good exit plan, but if you move the the edge of the lane to let cars split the lane with you, you're asking for trouble.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Also, we were told in class that one of the safety issues with sitting in neutral is getting pushed out into an intersection. One instructor who has been riding for 30 years said she has personally seen this happen once during a group ride when another biker bumped the bike in front of him. It was not a pretty result.

Say you are sitting first in line at an intersection waiting for the light to change. You have the bike in neutral and someone comes up and smacks you or bumps you--either bike or car. The bike is going to lurch forward and possibly roll right out into cross-traffic, quite possibly with you still attached to the bike. With the bike in first, it will just stall if you let out the clutch quickly and then topple over. It won't roll into the intersection.

We were told to always have the bike in first gear if we were stopped. Be ready to move if something comes up on you from behind. If something bumps you, drop the clutch immediately. If not, you might get a double-whammy--the thing that bumps you and the thing in front of you that you roll into. We also were told to beware of false starts from the car/bike behind you. They may flinch if they see a green light for the turn lane for turning traffic. Check your mirros at all times while stopped and have enough space between you and the guy behind and in front of you. When in motion, your primary focus should be things in front of you, with occasional glances in the mirror to get situational awareness for the rear. When stopped, your focus and attention should primarily be directed on what is happening behind you--no daydreaming at stoplights like in a car. That's how it was laid out to us. According to the info, intersections are where most trouble happens--sometimes even when stopped. Impatient motorists with a trigger finger on the accelerator can be particularly troublesome. I am not speaking from experience. Just from the advice handed down to us in the class.
 
#30 ·
On reading some of these comments about N-at-stoplights, it's nice that we're all on board with the CSC/MSF recommendations for rider-ready and such...

But there is still a practical side of things, too. If I have a car stopped fully behind me at a light that's recently turned red that is a good time to... ahem... "adjust" the non mechanical equipment. This is best done with both feet planted.

I guess that's not a "habit" per se, but can be very important! :D
 
#31 ·
Turning off my turn signals after the turn.

I sometimes don't hit the button solid and the signal doesn't turn off or I forget for a few moments.

This is just like begging to be pulled out in front of.

I would urge newbies like me to use turn signals in your neighborhood riding even when there is nobody around to get in the habit.

I must straighten up and fly right.
 
#33 ·
Thanks for all the responses to the Netural question, i took the MSF as well but it was almost a year before i actually got the bike, so some things have left my brain. Looks like another bad habbit of mine is not paying attention to whats happeneing behind me while im stopped at a light, ill be more vigilant.
 
#37 ·
^

 
#41 ·
The other thing to think about while sitting at a light, where will I go if I need an "out"? Don't sit dead center behind a car. Plan on heading for the curb or between the cars in front of you. Even in places where "filtering" is illegal, it is better than being squashed when the guy behind fails to stop.
 
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