Stopping and going: Lessons from two-up riding

[superfly]

So I thought I was a pretty smooth operator on the brakes until I had my girlfriend take the pillion seat a month or so ago. Every time I'd pull in the clutch to brake, I'd be rewarded with a little tap of her helmet on mine.

Recently, I gave my friend a ride home. He has ridden before and mentioned to me that the key is for the passenger to hold onto the rider with their legs, just like the rider does the bike, and use the passenger handlebars. I swear I remember hearing my MSF instructor telling us to encourage the passenger to hold onto our body instead, but it actually did seem more comfortable and his head was far enough away from mine that they never touched. Is this any less safe or does it compromise something else that I missed?

During the course as well, we were instructed to completely pull in the clutch swiftly and completely before braking. I didn't really notice any issue until my first two-up ride. But in an effort to decrease the rate of deceleration during braking ("jerk" in physics terms), I've been slowly rolling off the throttle until it closed or nearly closed to allow the maximum effect of engine braking, then slowly and progressively applying brakes while pulling in the clutch. Sometimes I'll downshift before rolling off and using the lower gear for stronger engine braking. I had the chance to try this with my friend in tow and it is definitely effective in smoothing out the stop.

On the way up the gears, it seems that speed of the gear change is of primary importance. If the inertia of the revving engine is lost then you cannot possibly hope to engage the next gear smoothly. There seems to be an important difference between shifting for one and shifting for two, however, at least on the little 250. First gear is always best if you leave about halfway through when riding solo, even earlier when with a friend. The rest of the gears are good for up to about 8000 rpm, but the shift point is uniformly lower for smooth riding with a passenger.

I wanted to share this in case it could help anyone and also tap any other riders that have experience riding two-up.

[SDM]

I always ride to up well 99% of the time, I had her try the passenger grab bars, and she said she didnt feel as safe as holding on to me, she told me she can feel it in my body what I am about to do, brake, accelerate etcetc. We had many helmet bumps in the beginning, not so often now though as I have gotten smother when riding, and she has gotten better at being a pillion.

You are correct the passenger needs to hold you with their legs also like your holding the tank, There is a really good explanation on this forum about riding 2 up, dont have time right now but will find it and share it.. Very good read and very informative. We used what the guy had mentioned and it works very good.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions!

[Aufitt]

Yep, its a good gauge to see how smooth/rough you are on the throttle, how good your revmatching is,
and to see how well you anticipate the road ahead.

her knees gip you, like you grip the tank.
her left hand around your waist for accel,
her right hand in the middle of your back for braking.
she is to lean into corners with you/more than you.
No headbutting allowed.

One Penii per bike.

[superfly]

I believe this was the highlight from the thread you mentioned, SDM. Thought I'd include it here for ease of reference. It's incredibly informative. Talks mostly about how to interact with your passenger.

Originally Posted by AzizaVFR

Do you take your girl on rides?
Yes

Is there such a thing as a "experienced passenger"!?

Yes there is. Here are a couple of images showing how much a passenger should affect your riding.

Solo, note the lean angle.


Now, Two-up, same corner.


You will notice with her additional weight, there is no change in lean angle nor speed through the corner. You as the pilot have to be patient and work with your passenger as far as sitting position, hand position, where to look, and how to hold on.

A couple of things to discuss with your passenger:

• Body position, in regards to fore/aft and left/right.
• Hand positions
• Inner thigh pressure

For body position, should be in alignment left/right with your hips and upper body. For the fore/aft, they should be close enough to have a full grip on your hips with their inner thighs. Hand position can be either on your sides, your thighs, or around you holding onto the tank. The hands are only really used to steady the passenger's shoulders and upper body. The inner thighs are what should be doing most of the stabilization. From the picture above, you can see her right hand is on my side while her left hand is on my thigh. This allowed her to lean with me, looking through the corner under me.



Another couple of gestures to discuss and practice are speed and alert gestures. You need to be able to give your passenger an ability to either speed up or slow down without having to scream over the wind noise. Everyone I have taught how to ride on the back can tell me to speed up by tapping on the right thigh, and to slow down, tap on the left. This is not distracting and help to build trust and comfort between both of you. From the pilot side, you can let your passenger know of anything sudden coming up you are planning for, by tapping their left thigh with your clutch hand before you make any sudden accelerations / decelerations.


Onto thigh position and tension. Your passenger should have enough contact area and tension between their inner thighs and your hips to hold them securely in any riding situation. Most of the time, I tell my passenger to try and crush my hips while riding. With the passenger locked to you, it help keep the mass majority of weight locked together, and stable.


These steps have helped me teach every passenger to be more comfortable and enjoy the ride. The best reward is feeling the squeeze and hearing the laughter. The pictures shown were taking durning one of the two special track days sessions with Reg Pridmore's ClassRides Two-up classes I have attended. The track used was the Streets course at Willow Springs. Here is one of the instructors trying to keep up with us through the same corner as above. You will notice very little difference between his lean angle and ours.





My Lady bought her seventh motorcycle, a 2012 CBR250R. She enjoys riding it and also riding on the back. It handles two-up riding quite well. Yes the suspension is not up to the same level as the VFR800, nor the KTM 625SMC. That can be fixed.


Not bad for a first post to this forum.

Sent from my DROID4 using Motorcycle.com Free App

[SDM]

@ superfly TY TY just got back in the office and was going to look for it... YES sir thats the one full of good info, thanks for doing the searching