In the US, most of the federal taxes you pay only go to servicing the national debt. The stuff you talk about taxes 'paying for' is actually paid for by borrowing more money. It's a system which always, eventually collapses.
Obomber care is only a bail out for insurance companies, that is why you pay more under the 'plan' and get less.
Government is a parasite on the people and the nation. Like a robber, with a gun in your back, you may give them your money, but that doesn't make you more free.
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Here we have the liberal view of society and the economy:
This society and economy consists of:
The Carcass
A limited quantity of resources needed to satisfy the basic needs of survival. In the liberal worldview, the economy is finite. If anyone gets more than another, they have taken more than their fair share. One person's gain is another's loss. The economy is a zero sum game in the liberal mind.
The Hyenas
Fast and strong, sticking together and hunting in packs. Their speed and skill leaves no chance for others to compete. These are the capitalists in the liberal formulation.
The Buzzards
Existing on the margins, they are weak and unable to fight for their fair share. Historically downtrodden, they typically get only the scraps that the hyenas leave behind. To the liberal, these creatures historically come from the lower classes, but increasingly are joined by starving, weak, and lame "middle-class" hyenas who can no longer run with the peak performers in the pack.
And here is the liberal solution:
Bring in some guys with guns to shoot and kill the hyenas, in the process handing the carcass over to the buzzards and the weak hyenas.
And everyone lived happily ever after. Except the strong hyenas. The End.
Here we have the liberal view of society and the economy:
This society and economy consists of:
The Carcass
A limited quantity of resources needed to satisfy the basic needs of survival. In the liberal worldview, the economy is finite. If anyone gets more than another, they have taken more than their fair share. One person's gain is another's loss. The economy is a zero sum game in the liberal mind.
The Hyenas
Fast and strong, sticking together and hunting in packs. Their speed and skill leaves no chance for others to compete. These are the capitalists in the liberal formulation.
The Buzzards
Existing on the margins, they are weak and unable to fight for their fair share. Historically downtrodden, they typically get only the scraps that the hyenas leave behind. To the liberal, these creatures historically come from the lower classes, but increasingly are joined by starving, weak, and lame "middle-class" hyenas who can no longer run with the peak performers in the pack.
And here is the liberal solution:
Bring in some guys with guns to shoot and kill the hyenas, in the process handing the carcass over to the buzzards and the weak hyenas.
And everyone lived happily ever after. Except the strong hyenas. The End.
Actually you're wrong. Liberals (in the American sense - in the rest of the world, liberals are kinda like the republicans, only a tad more realistic) have a positive outlook on human nature. Conservatives have a negative outlook on human nature. It's why conservatives focus on negative rights (government shouldn't intervene, since they consist out of people that can do harm - a la Hayek, Rand etc. etc.), as where liberals would also formulate positive rights - I have the right to a good life, for instance.
Yeah, and I guess women could always cover themselves head-to-foot and avoid going out in public if they don't want to be leered at and molested by aggressive lechers.
Your viewpoint is stupid and historically uninformed and should be grounds for deportation. This country was founded on the concept of individual liberty because it did not exist anywhere else on earth and yet it is the natural state of man. The US ought to remain the one place on earth where the individual is essentially left free to pursue happiness without being immolated by the greedy selfish mob surrounding him.
Top, I know what you're getting at in the first part of your statement. There's a difference between taxation for things that make sense to pay for by the collective (police, fire, rescue, and national defense, for example) and fiscal social engineering. As for the failure of the US economy, I would point to increased government intrusion, not the other way around.
To everyone else, saying anyone is entitled to certain things in life just says to me "I think I ought to have it and want it really bad". As you and I know, the government doesn't have its own money, it has to generate revenue from the people. Thus, supporting that spending is literally saying you agree with some people being forced by whatever means necessary to give up their property to others against their will. You don't do the physical forcing yourself, but are authorizing and commanding agents of the state to do just that. Most people fail to realize this because they've grown up with it and have accepted it as 2nd nature reality.
As for a liberal solution to healthcare; I'd have gone single-pay. It would've solved all these issues.
As for a conservative solution; cross-border competition and transparency in cost of service. If you're a conservative and don't know the dollar amount of how much a simple office visit costs, you have no room to complain. That laziness is part of the reason cost is so high.
To any other Libertarians, Conservatives, etc: I advise not to make derogatory comments towards the Liberal members of the forum, as a personal request. It makes it hard for everyone to stay cool and discuss things like adults. The internet has the tendency to make people fight who otherwise wouldn't. I'm sure if we were all hanging out, we'd be too busy riding bikes to argue with each other.
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Last edited by Rusty Shackleford; 11-20-2012 at 11:44 AM.
Yeah, and I guess women could always cover themselves head-to-foot and avoid going out in public if they don't want to be leered at and molested by aggressive lechers.
Your viewpoint is stupid and historically uninformed and should be grounds for deportation. This country was founded on the concept of individual liberty because it did not exist anywhere else on earth and yet it is the natural state of man. The US ought to remain the one place on earth where the individual is essentially left free to pursue happiness without being immolated by the greedy selfish mob surrounding him.
remember, freedom... its just a term used to say that your leash is alittle longer than anybody elses.
If you can't exercise a "right" while alone on a desert island...it isn't a right. It's an entitlement provided by other people.
Actually, if you state everyone on the island has the right to be happy, it would be the obligation of that one person to make himself happy.
The point is that, such rights should be formulated, when society as a whole would become better off. Next to that, I only stated it as a response to what you wrote about liberals, which is principally not true. Perhaps you mistook my words for that of a typical liberal (although I'd define myself as a Third Way social democrat).
