What ever happened to PERSONAL responsibility? Why is it my job to pay for your healthcare, retirement, food, housing and general welfare?
Because if I can't, you'd have to be inhuman scum to insist that I suffer or die.
Speaking of personal responsibility, that's what the ACA does: requires the otherwise healthy people who neglected buying insurance and strained the system by abusing the ER and skipping out on unexpected medical bills to take responsibility and buy some.
What ever happened to PERSONAL responsibility? Why is it my job to pay for your healthcare? What if I don't WANT to pay for you? I've have no interest in being endlessly robbed for the sake of those who can't/wont do for themselves.
My friend,
I think you misunderstand the purpose of publicly financed healthcare.
The purpose is not for YOU to fund others' healthcare, it's for YOUR HEALTH to be looked after when you need it.
I betcha you cannot afford to build your own hospital, buy your own MRI machine or employ your own liver surgeon, IC Unit and 24 hour nursing care.
If, however, everyone contributes a tiny percentage of their income (1.5% of gross annual income is the national healthcare levy in my country), this can then build hospitals, pay for technology, nurses, surgeons and subsidised medication. For some years I earned a big corporate salary and paid my taxes. Then I got sick -- liver disease -- and I needed to access all of the above services. And God Bless this country, I haven't had to pay for any of it. And the medications which cost $10,000s per year, cost me $100 per month flat charge.
I know that the American system is badly farcked up and doesn't work like our system here. That's because it's been hijacked by insurance companies raping the system to make their huge profits and by a political lobby that makes the misguided arguments that you're making here. But you've got to start somewhere and from an outsider's perspective Obamacare is far from perfect, but a step in the right direction.
If you don't contribute your taxes to healthcare, then perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to access healthcare services when you need them.
And trust me, one day you will. How will you take personal responsibility for that? Build your own farking hospital? Buy your own MRI machines? I don't think so.
And it's not communism, it's common humanity.
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Because if I can't, you'd have to be inhuman scum to insist that I suffer or die.
Speaking of personal responsibility, that's what the ACA does: requires the otherwise healthy people who neglected buying insurance and strained the system by abusing the ER and skipping out on unexpected medical bills to take responsibility and buy some.
Take responsibility? People have a responsibility only if they use services. Enough of this nonsense; a man does not incur debt to others by merely existing. The mere thought is ridiculous, and a horrible tyranny. We owe payment when we agree to an exchange, not until. How can it be any other way?
What you are talking about is robbery, or else I'd be able to say "no". When not paying, they would burst through my door, armed for a fight, screaming "IRS! Hands up!", and kidnap me. That is a threat of force, of imprisonment, and of further robbery. You who want the government to commit crime can rationalize it all you want; I do not consent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozbenno
My friend,
I think you misunderstand the purpose of publicly financed healthcare.
The purpose is not for YOU to fund others' healthcare, it's for YOUR HEALTH to be looked after when you need it.
I betcha you cannot afford to build your own hospital, buy your own MRI machine or employ your own liver surgeon, IC Unit and 24 hour nursing care.
If, however, everyone contributes a tiny percentage of their income (1.5% of gross annual income is the national healthcare levy in my country), this can then build hospitals, pay for technology, nurses, surgeons and subsidised medication. For some years I earned a big corporate salary and paid my taxes. Then I got sick -- liver disease -- and I needed to access all of the above services. And God Bless this country, I haven't had to pay for any of it. And the medications which cost $10,000s per year, cost me $100 per month flat charge.
I know that the American system is badly farcked up and doesn't work like our system here. That's because it's been hijacked by insurance companies raping the system to make their huge profits and by a political lobby that makes the misguided arguments that you're making here. But you've got to start somewhere and from an outsider's perspective Obamacare is far from perfect, but a step in the right direction.
If you don't contribute your taxes to healthcare, then perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to access healthcare services when you need them.
And trust me, one day you will. How will you take personal responsibility for that? Build your own farking hospital? Buy your own MRI machines? I don't think so.
And it's not communism, it's common humanity.
Build my own hospital? Why on earth would I need to build my own hospital? Others do that, with their own capital, and staff it with doctors. All I have to do is pay them in the event that I need the services they have established. If I so desire, I can cover myself for that eventuality by purchasing insurance.
Take responsibility? People have a responsibility only if they use services. Enough of this nonsense; a man does not incur debt to others by merely existing. The mere thought is ridiculous, and a horrible tyranny. We owe payment when we agree to an exchange, not until. How can it be any other way?
What you are talking about is robbery, or else I'd be able to say "no". When not paying, they would burst through my door, armed for a fight, screaming "IRS! Hands up!", and kidnap me. That is a threat of force, of imprisonment, and of further robbery. You who want the government to commit crime can rationalize it all you want; I do not consent.
Objectivist pap. Your very existence is due to the civilization around you. You damnwell owe it everything, whether you understand it or rebel against your nature.
Objectivist pap. Your very existence is due to the civilization around you. You damnwell owe it everything, whether you understand it or rebel against your nature.
What nonsense! I exist not because of civilization, but because of an individual choice each of my parents made to procreate. I no more exist because of civilization than does any other life on this planet. Collectivist rubbish.
Civilization is merely the interaction of individual humans, in a way that is respectful to the rights of all. When one steals from another, or is in any way disrespectful, we call them uncivilized.
The government is in that way, the greatest threat to civilization; it steals from, murders and imprisons whoever it pleases. The more power government has, the more uncivilized a nation becomes; USSR, China, Cambodia, North Korea, etc.
It is unfortunate that some citizens have deemed it right for their needs to be taken care of, by having leviathan take from others. You will never get around this. In the end, you will have to admit, that you would prefer to steal than to suffer. No, it is worse, you would rather steal than fear that you might suffer in the future. Such is your cowardice, your avarice, and your progressive criminality.
As much as I liked ozbenno's post a few above mine, I must mention that the medicine subsidisation is slightly biased down here in Australia and my opinion is slightly biased because the medication that I am dependent on (that's right, I need it or my chances of survival become pretty slim, and I'm not kidding on that one) are not covered by it. I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic, and I spend something like $70 every couple of months to purchase medication. When I was on a Low Income Health Care card (ie concession card), it cost me something like $10-15 for the exact same medication.
But yes, Obamacare looks silly haha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoMike
This thread could have been called MILPD or Motorcycles I'd Like to Plasti Dip
From here: If it was up to me, every motorcyclist that ends up donating his organs though no fault of his own should be matched by the enforced confiscation of the organs of the idiot that ran him over.
It saddens me to see some folk on here saying that Americans should only have healthcare if they can afford it. What a selfish attitude. Get with the rest of the planet that can afford it, even though they are much worse off than you. In any civilised society, this should be a basic human right.
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You meet the nicest people on a Honda.
It saddens me to see some folk on here saying that Americans should only have healthcare if they can afford it. What a selfish attitude. Get with the rest of the planet that can afford it, even though they are much worse off than you. In any civilised society, this should be a basic human right.
Healthcare is not a right. Someone has to deliver those services, someone has to pay for the equipment used, for the drugs, and for all the rest. You don't have a right to the doctors time, or to the health companies' products. You have the right to your own fate.
Self defense IS a right, you have a right to defend yourself if someone is attacking you. Indeed, you may need to defend yourself from a life and death situation. To aid in their defense, many people here in the US buy guns. In no way should the US government buy everyone a weapon to defend themselves, even though defending themselves IS a right, and a person might die without one. You do not have a right to a free weapon.
When did people become so entitled as to think they have rights to the labor and possessions of others? It makes me very sad, that so many people have criminal dispositions.
medicine subsidisation is slightly biased down here in Australia
Yes, you are absolutely right. Our system is far from perfect and the inequities in PBS are an important part of that - as Bernie Banton knew only too well and lobbied hard against.
Personally I'm concerned about the slow but relentless move towards privatisation of medicine and health insurance in Australia. Its gone far enough already IMO, with the result that:
(a) care is getting more expensive (both for individuals and tax payers) as private insurance companies need to take their fat profits from it, and
(b) there is a growing disparity between quality care in private, paid-for, for-profit clinics and accessible care via Medicare which risks becoming low-quality care. Despite what Putoff thinks, good medical care shouldn't be the privilege of the richest few of the population and I'd hate to see Australia become like the US.
I've been extremely lucky and I recognise and appreciate it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by putoff
It is unfortunate that some citizens have deemed it right for their needs to be taken care of, by having leviathan take from others. You will never get around this. In the end, you will have to admit, that you would prefer to steal than to suffer.....Such is your cowardice, your avarice, and your progressive criminality.
and
All I have to do is pay them in the event that I need the services they have established.
Putoff, I've worked hard all my life (and still do, despite a terminal physical condition), but I'm not rich and certainly not rich enough to pay for the type of private healthcare you advocate for, which runs in to the hundreds of thousands of dollars. But I've made my contribution and I continue to do so.
So, just out of curiosity, do you think that I should:
(a) get good healthcare, and continue to be a productive and contributing member of society? Or,
(b) stay at home until I'm dead?
Do you think this makes me avaricious, a coward and a thief?
Really?
I wonder what you would think if you lived in my shoes.
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