I do mind, actually. I'm already poor (as an individual) and struggling to do things I want to do in my life and would suffer more if I lived alone. Adding more losses to my income on something I may NEVER need will NOT help ME!
People are sick and needy until they are no longer sick and needy and if we lived in a world where people went on long periods with no illnesses or needs, then the services will not be needed and the money goes to waste.
I have lived over 15 years of my life without a serious illness or injury that required professional care, so I have had no NEED for healthcare.
Now I know not everyone is like me, but if the majority was, then the system would collapse or be put on reserve (which would lead to wasted money, unless it was only active when the needs for it were enough).
In the case if the program is a success, you bet your butt over population would increase and cause problem universal free healthcare could NOT handle.
To be honest, I think this is shortsighted. You're a motorcyclist. You should know that you do not control all the variables when in traffic. What if you fall due to an oil slick or a couple of leafs? What if patching you up would cost you a tremendous fortune? The point for an insurance is that you spread the risks. You may think you're healthy now, but that can change in a few years. The point of obliging people to insure themselves is to prevent free riding. I pay 1200 euro's a year as well and I only go to the dentist twice a year (which costs me 30 euro's per visit). But when I do get something, let's say I fall while cycling, breaking my leg, I do know that I don't have to pay too much.
You can discourage people by introducing an 'own risk' threshold, if people have to cough up the first 200 euro's themselves, they'll be far less inclined to visit the doctor for trivial complaints.
To be honest, I think this is shortsighted. You're a motorcyclist. You should know that you do not control all the variables when in traffic. What if you fall due to an oil slick or a couple of leafs? What if patching you up would cost you a tremendous fortune? The point for an insurance is that you spread the risks. You may think you're healthy now, but that can change in a few years. The point of obliging people to insure themselves is to prevent free riding. I pay 1200 euro's a year as well and I only go to the dentist twice a year (which costs me 30 euro's per visit). But when I do get something, let's say I fall while cycling, breaking my leg, I do know that I don't have to pay too much.
You can discourage people by introducing an 'own risk' threshold, if people have to cough up the first 200 euro's themselves, they'll be far less inclined to visit the doctor for trivial complaints.
Sure, but read my last post and consider someone in my position. How much more financial suffering would they endure if they paid some of those very few hundred dollars JUST IN CASE they eventually might need the service, every month?
Ah, well. At least they'd still have the chance to keep on slugging the punching bag that is life, right?
I'd honestly rather NOT exsist if I were to live a long life of misery.
And no disrespect, but NO. I am NOT a motorcyclist. I am a human being, with a life FAR more complex than just riding a motorcycle I like. Thats why the Off-Topic forums exsist.
Last edited by Honda CBR 250 Rider; 12-01-2012 at 07:37 AM.
You need to take all possibilities into consideration, BEFORE you jump on any bangwagon.
Some blissfully arrogant pimply kid pushed me off the bandwagon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda CBR 250 Rider
What? Do you think I live in my own home, have my own car, have a job that pays me enough to live a life I would be happy with?
NO. I live with a roomate so I'm not broke or homless every month. I only have a motorcycle because I spent over a year saving up money then decided to spend ALL OF IT (and I DO mean ALL OF IT) so that I didn't have to walk/ride a bike for LONG trips or take unreliable buses just so I get things done more easily at the cost of even MORE MONEY now that my most expensive possession require costly care that didn't exsist when I put myself through daily physical stress. I only bring home an average of $600 every 2 weeks and lose $450 a month, which THANKFULLY (considering the luck of my current situation) leaves me with enough funds to pay for BASIC needs and access to my own bare bones transportation, and a few hundred extra for saving up to EVENTUALLY be able to afford better things for myself. The word you want to look at is EVENTUALLY! This process is SLOW and the situation could be WORSE if I didn't get lucky with what I live in and who I live with.
Now imagine everyone in this situation, but living by themselves in a home that ISN'T larger than 50 square ft. and made out of crap, and how they would manage.
Answer me this: Do you want people like me to live even longer and/or more unhappy lives, just so everyone has the chance to NOT die too soon?
Back on topic. This is what I'm talking about. Taking out more could devastate many.
My heart bleeds.......
You earn more than me, have more spacious digs, and ride a bigger motorcycle, but I don't give a hoot.
__________________ there are old motorcyclists and bold motorcyclists,
but you seldom meet an old bold motorcyclist
I have lived over 15 years of my life without a serious illness or injury that required professional care, so I have had no NEED for healthcare.
Hey mate, do you wear a helmet? Because on the logic you've presented it's a waste of money - you haven't fallen off your bike, so you don't need a helmet.
Basic rule of investment, insurance and, umm, life - past results are no guarantee of future events.
This talk of 'slavery' is ridiculous. No one is forced to do anything - the institutions may need to treat the sick, but the individuals can go get other jobs. They are not slaves, not even paid slaves. Calling what healthcare workers do in a public health system slavery really diminishes from the significance of the word 'slavery' and belittles the suffering of the millions of slaves throughout history. It's emotive and offensive nonsense.
Last edited by Will 250; 12-01-2012 at 08:01 AM.
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Then HURRAY FOR YOU! I am happy for you. I wish I WAS YOU, so I could be happy, too!
But guess what.
I AM NOT YOU!
Neither is anyone else! I am someone else, somewhere else, and therefore I have different requirements to achieve feelings of bliss!
I'm not saying that this is your opinion, but if you believed everyone should be happy with the cards they are dealt, then we would STILL be in the stone ages or exstinct!
Do you understand where I'm coming from, now? (I honestly don't want you to answer the question because I've made my point and am done.)
Last edited by Honda CBR 250 Rider; 12-01-2012 at 08:42 AM.
Hey mate, do you wear a helmet? Because on the logic you've presented it's a waste of money - you haven't fallen off your bike, so you don't need a helmet.
Basic rule of investment, insurance and, umm, life - past results are no guarantee of future events.
This talk of 'slavery' is ridiculous. No one is forced to do anything - the institutions may need to treat the sick, but the individuals can go get other jobs. They are not slaves, not even paid slaves. Calling what healthcare workers do in a public health system slavery really diminishes from the significance of the word 'slavery' and belittles the suffering of the millions of slaves throughout history. It's emotive and offensive nonsense.
Yes I do use a helmet, but surprise! It was CHEAP and I only paid ONCE and it will last until it breaks. I do NOT expect it to protect me from all dangers, but NO helmet does! But the point is that it only cost $100 and don't need to pay again and again and again, just incase it MAYBE breaks and I instantly get a new one for "free". And just so you know. No one "NEEDS" helmet, but I got one because the investment was easy to fill and requires no further investing until it breaks (and if I CHOOSE to buy another), which might NEVER happen.
And yes slavery is a option that makes sense. Its been done before. Just because its rediculous and horrible doesn't mean it isn't doable. People tend to like living, so they'll try to do whats nessessary to not die, especially in a situation where something far more powerful than you, is you "employer". With a threat like that, it is easy to accomplish. However, there will be those that resist and rebels cannot be permanently elliminated. More will come and if it gets big enough, then there is a fighting chance for change. Thats called a civil war (not nessessarily fought with weapons). But also consider the fact just because I use slavery as term for someone force to do something good, does NOT mean the slaves suffer. They might very well live awesome lives.
The point is not if they suffer or not, it's the chances of how many will suffer given the overall circumstances.
You have to see things with a wide angle lens and not a narrow one before coming to a conclusion of how things may turn out.
PS: I'm going to sleep. I'm so tired I can barely focus on NOT misspelling and excluding so many words.
Last edited by Honda CBR 250 Rider; 12-01-2012 at 09:05 AM.
Sorry, HondaRider, had to vote to disagree. I am opposed to national health insurance for the US, but I disagree with your reasoning. At least to those parts of your rant that seem to be reasoned in the first place.
How, or if, other countries successfully deliver universal healthcare is an important thing for US policy makers to explore. So are the differences between the US and those other countries that might make national healthcare work there but not here. The Affordable Healthcare Act (aka Obamacare) defies its own name -- it is not affordable provides only a marginal improvement in access to healthcare. That doesn't mean that access to healthcare isn't a right. It simply means that there are more efficient and less intrusive methods for doing so in the US than the current plan offers.
Lastly, it's virtually impossible to have a productive debate on this subject in this forum. I already rambled on for longer than I cared to and barely scratched the surface of the issue. I'm going back to reading about motorcycles now...
_____________
Sweeping cobwebs from the edges of my mind
Had to get away to see what we could find
Hope the days that lie ahead
Bring us back to where they've led
Listen not to what's been said to you
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