I agree these debates are not productive here and I don't care to add fuel to the fire. The core difference I've observed on this forum is views on "positive rights/liberty VS negative rights/liberty". They're ultimately 2 sides of the same coin but will be biased based on whether someone has individualist or collectivist tendencies. My advice: Be very very cautious when deciding to publicly have a political discussion, particularly among mixed company. Play nice, folks.
__________________
C'mon, sko sko sko!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rusty Shackleford For This Useful Post:
Sure, but read my last post and consider someone in my position. How much more financial suffering would they endure if they paid some of those very few hundred dollars JUST IN CASE they eventually might need the service, every month?
Ah, well. At least they'd still have the chance to keep on slugging the punching bag that is life, right?
I'd honestly rather NOT exsist if I were to live a long life of misery.
And no disrespect, but NO. I am NOT a motorcyclist. I am a human being, with a life FAR more complex than just riding a motorcycle I like. Thats why the Off-Topic forums exsist.
Someone in your financial situation probably wouldn't have to pay anything, or very little, so you would benefit from the healthcare that you've never been able to afford.
__________________
You meet the nicest people on a Honda.
Someone in your financial situation probably wouldn't have to pay anything, or very little, so you would benefit from the healthcare that you've never been able to afford.
If you follow his reasoning, he wants to be free from the obligation to insure himself. That would mean that if he get's an accident or becomes chronically ill, he should basically be left to die as he took the risk not be insured.
I guess from a social-biological point of view he makes a strong case for survival of the fittest. Some food for thought...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Shackleford
I agree these debates are not productive here and I don't care to add fuel to the fire. The core difference I've observed on this forum is views on "positive rights/liberty VS negative rights/liberty". They're ultimately 2 sides of the same coin but will be biased based on whether someone has individualist or collectivist tendencies. My advice: Be very very cautious when deciding to publicly have a political discussion, particularly among mixed company. Play nice, folks.
I think more importantly, there's a culturally diverse group of people on this forum. I guess living in a large nation makes people less aware of other ways of organizing things. In Europe we have various groups of countries that organize things differently (i.e. the Nordic System, the Continental system, Anglo-Saxon system and the Mediterranean chaos - a la Esping-Andersen); I'm one of the few fans I guess of the European Union (as long as it remains mostly inter-state) and the way we compare the performance of countries with OMC's - it makes us far more aware of the alternatives and implications of various policies.
I'm actually sometimes taken aback by the way America get's governed - it's of course the government Americans choose for, but I wonder if Americans are truly aware of how much their country has gotten worse since the 60's and 70's - for example, some of the roads look worse than those ex-East bloc countries like Poland since clearly no one wants to pay the taxes to uphold them.
Last edited by Tyrian; 12-01-2012 at 10:16 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Tyrian For This Useful Post:
I definitely agree that there's multiple ways to address governing, and all require sacrificing a small share of rights for protection of the remaining ones. I think a large part of the issue in my country (USA) is voter ignorance and the perpetual stranglehold of the the liberal and conservative coalition parties known as the Democrats and Republicans. Most people are reasonable minded "independents" who are expressing discontent with those who claim to "represent the people". There's too much emphasis on ideological differences and not enough cooperation on practical goals, IMHO.
__________________
C'mon, sko sko sko!
Last edited by Rusty Shackleford; 12-01-2012 at 11:04 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Rusty Shackleford For This Useful Post:
I find it interesting that a self professed poor person would choose to buy a motorcycle, arguably the most dangerous form of transportation, and then argue that free healthcare would would be detrimental to his cause. You are very lucky to have not been injured or sick for the last 15 years, as it seems like you could not afford to be out of work for long. With your line of reasoning, you shouldn't have to insure your bike either because you haven't even crashed it yet!
__________________
Everyone has the right to be offended but just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jme250RA For This Useful Post:
I definitely agree that there's multiple ways to address governing, and all require sacrificing a small share of rights for protection of the remaining ones. I think a large part of the issue in my country (USA) is voter ignorance and the perpetual stranglehold of the the liberal and conservative coalition parties known as the Democrats and Republicans. Most people are reasonable minded "independents" who are expressing discontent with those who claim to "represent the people". There's too much emphasis on ideological differences and not enough cooperation on practical goals, IMHO.
You must recognize that one of these parties has been increasingly hijacked by extreme, puritanical, excommunicating ideologues who have simply relied on a decreasingly reliable political pendulum effect.
If you're an independent moderate Republican who thinks we need compromise and pragmatism, you've probably been "primaried" out of a job.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NSU For This Useful Post:
OP....I wonder if you have ever truely been sick? Do you know what it's like to just begin living your life and get a devastating diagnosis and then realize the medical care you need will not be provided cause your poor and cld not afford expensive insurance? Or, ever wonder when you are riding your bike and some idiot smucks you and you manage to live but are seriously injured but the hospital won't help you cause you have no insurance and "heaven forbid others shd pay for your treatment". I wonder if you ever showed up at the ER with a loved one who deperately needs life saving help but the hospital turns you away cause you have no insurance and "heaven forbid others shd help you out" and you are turned away from the hospital. I wonder what you know what it's like to watch a loved one die at the door step of an ER cause they will not accept what little insurance you are able to afford? What if it was your child? I wonder HOW OLD you are? Young enough to feel invincible and to own the mentality that nothing will ever happen to you? Or OLD and cynicle and dispassionate? Not all poor ppl wish to drain the coffers of others. Most work ******************** hard to provide for themselves and family. This world is turning into the mentality that only the rich will ever afford to have any quality of life while the middle class and poor continue to spiral downward.
Do you know what "empathy means"? Or "sympathy" means? If I had sacks of money I wld definately be willing to help out others less blessed. Definately wld not be holding my bank account close to my chest with selfish arms.
__________________
WHY DOES TOILET PAPER NEED A COMMERCIAL? Who IS NOT BUYING THIS?
CBR500RA
CBR250RA (sold)
CBF1000 (sold)
MINI COOPER
JEEP TJ
SPORTSTER (sold)
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to live_to_ride For This Useful Post:
The government cannot force anyone to protect or defend any person or animal.
Free police protection means EVERYONE gets help, but guess what. You NEED people to help other people! We don't have enough humans who can or want to perform police duties for everyone at the demands of any power.
The whole idea revolves around slavery of anything that can do the job, which means that the only time this idea will ever be good is when we create robot capable of doing so.
Even if this system was implimented and people did willing do the job, they NEED to be paid SOMETHING. If its only money, then you bet your butt it will be expensive and cause the poor to might as well die off. If not money, then it would be payment in the form of free housing, transportation, and other benefit arrangements at the cost of the tax payers dollars.
Governments have no right to force anyone to provide services to everyone or anyone within its borders, especially to those who do not wish to be apart of the program.
What do you think?
The Following User Says Thank You to NSU For This Useful Post:
As much as I like building luxury houses for a living, it would not be my dream to build these luxury houses for people for free.(especially with some of their horrible ideas!). So, with that being said, I trade my time for money and sometimes have to build things I don't like in order to keep my job. This sounds like slavery according to the terms set out by the OP. I hate being a slave!!! But this is the way things are and as long as the money outweighs the occasional aggravation of the job, I guess I'll still be a slave to the grind! I just hope that the OP doesn't suffer the same degrading slavery that I do every day!
__________________
Everyone has the right to be offended but just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right!
Last edited by Jme250RA; 12-01-2012 at 02:37 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Jme250RA For This Useful Post:
The very nature of becoming a doctor or healthcare professional is one of humanism and service. They must value the life and health of their fellow humans immensely more than they value their own time and energy. I wouldn't want to have a doctor or nurse who thinks like the OP, and we're fortunate that probably very few exist.
No one takes on the vocation of medicine for the freedom of choosing their own clientele and workload. It is the challenge and reward of the endless variety and open-ended process that attracts.
The Following User Says Thank You to NSU For This Useful Post:
SUMIKO
SUMIKO
SUMIKO
