I am new here - Honda CBR250R Forum : Honda CBR 250 Forums
User Tag List

 2Likes
  • 1 Post By Schroeder
  • 1 Post By tegs
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 6 Old 06-06-2018, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Carrollton,Tx
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thumbs up I am new here

Hello everyone,

I am new to the forums and trying to get into bike ownership. As my profile shows I am not a spring chicken and no expert in terminology, experience, or different bikes.

SO I will start with what I am. 40 years old , 6 feet tall, hovering around 215 lbs and carrying it mostly around my gut. rest of me is thin. Not very muscular. I do not drive aggressively and havent had many close calls that were my own fault if any. I drive a Ram 1500 for now, but hope to break into the bike world as it has been a dream of mine since i could drive. No courses taken or tests yet, but wont mount one until I am sure I can ride them right.

That said I have two trains of thought, get the bike i want right out of the gate and learn from it and get good with it, or buy a lower cc bike and get good and if I dump it I am not so heartbroken. Based on body style and a small amount of fear, I dont think anything over 750cc is a good idea. As such I really liked sitting on the CBR600rr and my cash and prizes didnt get the cram jam I felt on a Yamaha or a Suzuki. Costs of a CBR600rr arent in my range yet, but the 250 is. Asthetics of the bike itself are relative to the cbr600rr so I am not really turned away by that.

So is the old adage from my research still going on in the bike world? Buy lower, get good at it, get bigger when ready? Or a 600 is good enough to learn on?

Now I want to clear some questions.
Are bikes all setup relatively the same? Left side is gear and clutch, right side is braking and throttle?
First gear is down remainders are up?
Front braking is equal to rear braking?
You use the body to turn corners and counter stear?
Lane splitting is based on state to state and shouldn't be done unless seasoned veteran?

I am sorry for the noob questions but the more I know when I get one the better I will feel and less likely to make a gross error. I dont wanna be a grease spot on a hood.

thank you for your time

Is that guy about to cut me off? Well lets speed up and find out
dclemmen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 Old 06-06-2018, 07:48 PM
Moderator
 
jsonder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: southern Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,987
Thanks: 327
Thanked 408 Times in 317 Posts
Garage
You've got a wee bit of a problem with this answer as I'm in my mid 70s and a tad cautious.

The old advice isn't bad:

1. Take a training course and see if you like it and can do it adequately. If so, get your license and go to step two.

2. Buy a small (300 cc or smaller engine) USED bike and continue to learn to ride. A used bike will already have fallen a time or two (more if you chose a dual sport) and the inevitable first tip over will not be as traumatic or financially painful. Small bikes will not go as fast and tend to be more forgiving when you screw up. If you are a guy, you will screw up on occasion.

I cannot speak for all bikes. Most modern bikes are as you described. Front wheel does 70+% of the braking. When you apply the brakes, weight is transferred forward, so the wheel with friction is the front wheel. The front brake has most of the stopping power. My middle son had a period of time where he loved doing "stoppies" (braking to a stop with the rear wheel off the ground toward the end of the stopping exercise).

For cornering, you turn the handlebars to the outside of the curve to force the bike to lean into the curve, which establishes the turning curvature. This will be covered in your training course.

I had to graduate high school and leave home before I could get a motorcycle. In 1960 there were no training courses and few books (hel*, I was 18 and wouldn't have read them anyway). Learning by doing is the slow and painful way to do it. Take a training course and get the first few years worth of experience handed to you at the start. You will be a much safer rider, and a more competent rider.

Lane splitting is only legal in California, at present. Get some experience before trying it.

Now, you have not discussed what type of riding you are planning to do. Carrollton is in the D-FW megaplex. When we visited the daughter in Kaufman, that meant freeway speeds ranging from 85 to zero mph. I do not recommend a small bike on high speed roads, but, some of our German riders find it fine (I suspect that the average German driver is more skilled than the average US driver).

If you provide more input about how you plan/need to use a bike, I can offer other input. A couple of the moderators here ride one of the Honda CB500 bikes to have a higher viable cruising speed, with decent passing capability. While I personally do not like it as a first bike (too big, both weight and engine), I love mine, and a CB500X should fit you well.

John: '09CRF230L (Li'l Red Piglet), '89NX250 (sold)
Propelled by Penguin Power
Nekkid motorcycles feel faster
1st bike: a gently used 1958 Matchless 250 thumper

Last edited by jsonder; 06-06-2018 at 07:55 PM. Reason: fix a typo
jsonder is offline  
post #3 of 6 Old 06-06-2018, 11:03 PM
Member
 
Das Chicken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Georgia
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclemmen View Post
That said I have two trains of thought, get the bike i want right out of the gate and learn from it and get good with it, or buy a lower cc bike and get good and if I dump it I am not so heartbroken. Based on body style and a small amount of fear, I dont think anything over 750cc is a good idea. As such I really liked sitting on the CBR600rr and my cash and prizes didnt get the cram jam I felt on a Yamaha or a Suzuki. Costs of a CBR600rr arent in my range yet, but the 250 is. Asthetics of the bike itself are relative to the cbr600rr so I am not really turned away by that.

So is the old adage from my research still going on in the bike world? Buy lower, get good at it, get bigger when ready? Or a 600 is good enough to learn on?

Now I want to clear some questions.
Are bikes all setup relatively the same? Left side is gear and clutch, right side is braking and throttle?
First gear is down remainders are up?
Front braking is equal to rear braking?
You use the body to turn corners and counter stear?
Lane splitting is based on state to state and shouldn't be done unless seasoned veteran?

I am sorry for the noob questions but the more I know when I get one the better I will feel and less likely to make a gross error. I dont wanna be a grease spot on a hood.

thank you for your time

Absolutely do not start on a 600. It does not take much power to throw you on your ass. Lots of people seem to start out on the bigger bikes because they think they will "grow out of the smaller bike in 6 months". Trust me, the "pain" of buying a bike to learn on for 6 months is not a pain at all. True pain would be searching for weeks to find your dream bike, getting it, and then totaling it and crippling yourself on the first ride. Do not be afraid to buy and sell a bike in a short timespan. It won't kill you. Also, something you probably haven't realized yet, but many seasoned riders have is that riding a slow bike at its limits can be far more fun than a faster bike ridden in a way that gives you the same amount of speed. Riding a fast bike at its limits gets you arrested. Or worse.


Consider a stepping stone such as the CBR 650F before jumping right into a 600 or 750+. You may end up liking it more..


Most bikes are setup the same. If you go back into the 60s and maybe 70s there are some bikes that flip around the clutch and brake, one example was my dad's 60s something Harley sprint 250. More recently there are bikes that may flip around the turn signal/horn locations, but the basic operating controls will all be in the same place.



First is down, all others are up, yes. If you click down a bunch of times from any other gear you should end up in 1st.


Front brakes offer FAR more braking power than the rear. Motorcycle classes seem to teach students to use the rear brake dominantly, which is incredibly stupid. My little brother recently took a motorcycle course and they taught him to come to a stop with his foot on the rear brake. I have tipped over on dirtbikes from coming to a stop with a foot on the pegs, and not being able to take that foot down on time. Sometimes the pegs can grab your boots.(pretty much only for the sharp pegs on dirtbikes)



Shifting your body position around does not turn the bike all that much. There was a test done with a bike that had the handlebars locked so they would not turn, and there was a passenger with their own set of handlebars just to hold on to. The passenger was able to hang WAY off the bike, and it really didn't turn that much. Most of your turning will be done by turning the wheel. At low speeds you turn the bars in the direction of the turn, at higher speeds you push the bars in the opposite direction. It comes pretty naturally, don't worry about it.


Lane splitting is legal in the rest of the civilized world.....and California. If you are elsewhere in the U.S., you are screwed. There is a firm resistance to lane splitting by car drivers and misguided people. If lane splitters kept their speed difference to only 10 mph, and only lane split up to 35 mph I could only imagine how much further lane splitting would have gotten, but people are irresponsible. Then that leads all the cars drivers to think that lane splitting means bikes flying between them at huge speed differences. Look what that got us. Apparently AAA lead an effort against legalizing lane splitting in Georgia, so i'm gonna make sure they never get any of my money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsonder View Post
Now, you have not discussed what type of riding you are planning to do. Carrollton is in the D-FW megaplex. When we visited the daughter in Kaufman, that meant freeway speeds ranging from 85 to zero mph. I do not recommend a small bike on high speed roads, but, some of our German riders find it fine (I suspect that the average German driver is more skilled than the average US driver).

Having been in Germany, I can verify this statement is far more true than you might think. German drivers are AMAZING. They actually pay attention, don't dick around on their phones, and generally don't suck at driving. American drivers suck, and they will continue to suck as they show no effort to improve, or take responsibility for their actions.
Das Chicken is offline  
 
post #4 of 6 Old 06-07-2018, 06:06 AM
Senior Member
 
Schroeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,802
Thanks: 206
Thanked 354 Times in 291 Posts
Hi dclemmen and welcome to the forum.


[gets on soap box]

As others have already stated you should get some training. There are things you need to know BEFORE hitting the roads and it's best to not fool around yourself and develop bad habits which will be difficult to correct later on. You really need to know how to apply brakes in the best way and what physics take place while doing it (especially on a non ABS bike were a locked up front wheel will send you to the ground in a heartbeat) before you need to do it in a real life emergency situation. You should also know about the worst enemies of the rider and how to combat them. For example: The left turning car cutting you off, target fixation (happens to everyone and you need to know about it to break it), gravel, blind spots etc. and perhaps the worst: doing stupid stuff on a bike.

You know, the good thing about being human is that we can learn from the mistakes of others. We don't have to find out everything ourselves the hard way. Use that ability and get training. I also recommend to go to Youtube and watch motorcycle crash compilations (after you had some training and understand a bit more about riding). Analyze why the riders went down, develop a feeling for such situations and avoid repeating their mistakes. You will see plenty of completely unnecessary crashes. Bikes that just go off the side of the road in a light curve simply because the rider didn't know about target fixation and how to break it. You'll see bikers being completely unprepared for cars in the opposite lane making a left turn in front of them. You'll see riders hanging around next to a vehicle in their blind spot being hit by that car when it changes lanes.You'll see people who don't know how to brake locking up the front wheel and you'll see plenty of bikers going down because of excessive speed, wheelies and generally behaving like a turd. Learn from them and don't be them.

When it comes to decide on what bike to get you have to ask yourself the question how patient you are. Here in Germany we get extensive mandatory 1 on 1 training with an instructor before we can get our license. The majority of biker fatalities here happen in the biker's second season... So the people who are most likely to die have had training and one year of riding experience, then they started to feel confident and then they did stupid things that killed them...Obviously the skills acquired at that time weren't enough...
How long will you be able to resist the urge to test the power of a high cc bike? When will you consider yourself prepared for it? If you have great wrist discipline you can start on a 600cc but you always need to remind yourself to not twist that wrist... for several years. Can you do that? The majority of people can't. They want to know what the bike is capable of and will give in into the temptation....
On a small cc bike you can give in earlier and when you make a mistake (notice I didn't say if you make a mistake but when) you have better chances of correcting it without going down than on a high power bike.

[climbs off of soap box]


Ok, enough preaching for day 1, I hope that helped a little (probably not).
tegs likes this.

My computer is fighting Aids and Cancer in it's idle time, and yours?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Schroeder; 06-07-2018 at 11:09 AM.
Schroeder is offline  
post #5 of 6 Old 06-13-2018, 01:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: WI
Posts: 1,698
Thanks: 244
Thanked 258 Times in 197 Posts
Lots of good advice here.

I'll second a few things - get some professional training before hitting the road, do not buy a 600cc super sport bike (like the CBR600RR) any time soon, and don't buy a new bike for your first.

Look at non-super sport bikes in the 500 to 650 range if you want to get into a mid-sized bike. Most will have an upright riding position that is generally much more comfortable than the crouched position of a super sport.

Depending on the type of riding you want to do and where you live, a mid-sized standard-type bike may be a good choice. Because you are a larger person, a mid-sized (non-super sport) bike isn't as difficult to handle as it is for some.
jkv357 is offline  
post #6 of 6 Old 06-13-2018, 05:03 PM
Senior Member
 
tegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 109
Thanks: 5
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Garage
Absolutely get training first. Not only will that help you get the core skills down safely, but it will also give you the chance to try riding different types of bikes and see what you prefer. I had no interest in sport bikes when I started training and was really interested in cruisers, but once I rode both I found that I love the nimbleness of sport bikes and can't stand cruisers. Had I bought a cruiser before training, that would have been an expensive mistake.

I'd strongly recommend David Hough's book Proficient Motorcycling. It's a very practical book focusing on how to safely ride in the real world. There are a lot of motorcycling books out there, but they tend to focus on track racing, which doesn't do much to prepare you for surviving urban traffic.

Displacement isn't everything; you have to look at the whole bike. A 600cc cbr600rr puts out 113 hp, while a 670cc NC700 puts out 50. The former goes like stink because that's what it's designed for to the exclusion of everything else, while the latter is designed to be easy to ride, comfortable, fuel efficient, and is an excellent starter bike. Think about where you want to ride and at what speeds, as that determines what bike is best for you. Big supersports are wasted in low speed city riding, and it's a lot more fun to ride a small bike hard than a big bike gently.

ABS is a very good idea, especially in the first few years when you're still learning braking technique. The stats have demonstrated a 34% reduction in fatal crashes in bikes with ABS compared to identical models without it. I really regret not spending the extra money to get it myself; the price difference is tiny when you consider the risks involved, and even a small crash can end up costing more in repairs than the ABS would have.

People tend to put a lot of money into the bike and get protective gear with whatever is left, and that's exactly backwards. Put the time and money into getting proper gear, preferably high vis as the biggest threat out there is drivers not seeing you. Ditto with bike colour, black is appealing but brighter colours are more visible and reduce the odds of somebody running you over.
Schroeder likes this.

Every bike is a good bike. The question is whether or not it's the best bike for what you want to do.

The Little Sport Tourer That Could - 2011 CBR250R with touring windscreen, Saddlemen seat, tank cover, frame sliders, mirror extenders, taller gearing via sprockets to fix speedo and reduce vibration at highway speed.
tegs is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda CBR250R Forum : Honda CBR 250 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome