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post #21 of 472 Old 10-04-2011, 08:33 PM
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Theres no reason for a rattle to come out of the any valve train of any motor. I have had several other single cyl bikes and didnt have this problem. I have had twins, in line 4 cyl, and even flat six cyl motors and NEVER had to listen to anything as annoying as this. If it is coming from the valve train theres something wrong. Honda has no responce and thats really frustrating. Too many people have complaind about the rattle its a real issue.
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post #22 of 472 Old 10-04-2011, 08:42 PM
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Has anyone else looked into their PAIR valve?
Clicky!

for the record I have the rattle right around 5.5k rpm. At the 600 mile service my valves were adjusted, but it did nothing to reduce the rattle. I'm honestly not too worried about it....

How fast do you want to go?....
Well how much do you want to spend?
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post #23 of 472 Old 10-04-2011, 09:35 PM
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Thanks Azul the Cat. Reading the link posted above made me feel a bit better about my rattle.
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post #24 of 472 Old 10-04-2011, 09:48 PM
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Mine was completely gone for my commute today. My God does it sounds sweet when it's completely gone.


I personally don't believe it's anything to do with the engine. Probably something around the front of the bike that vibrates at certain rpms and the sounds resonates through the plastic like a speaker.
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post #25 of 472 Old 10-04-2011, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azul the Cat View Post
Has anyone else looked into their PAIR valve?
Clicky!

for the record I have the rattle right around 5.5k rpm. At the 600 mile service my valves were adjusted, but it did nothing to reduce the rattle. I'm honestly not too worried about it....
Sorry for the brief thread highjack but...

After all my fiddling around, I am convinced that the PAIR valve is not a major source of noise on this engine. I have been running for at least a month with the PAIR valve adjusted to open less that intended. The result is no real change in noise (it still comes and goes) but the exhaust odor suggests that the catalytic convertor needs more air. When fully hot, there is a noticeable 'moth balls' odor. So I will be returning the valve to full operation shortly.

The only new observation I have is that when the engine if full hot and at 5K or so at mid throttle, the rattle is related to the injector somehow. At mid throttle, the injector cutoff can come and go and the rattle seems to do so too. I don't think it is the injector.

Anyway, I am always curious about what other things people notice. Still trying to figure out what could rattle like that other than the engine. But, when it is not there (like today!) it is a mighty fine sounding engine.

Now, back on topic:

The rattle can't be that much of a mechanical defect because, defects don't usually stay the same or get better. Annoying though. Definitely.
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post #26 of 472 Old 10-05-2011, 05:55 AM
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No rattle

3,600 miles. Never had any rattle.
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post #27 of 472 Old 10-05-2011, 10:44 AM
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Seems strange that some would develop a rattle after getting it back from the 600 mi service.

Do you know if they made adjustments to the valves, and what clearance did they adjust them to? Were they loose or tight before?

Is it possible they went with a different oil after servicing than what came originally as a "break-in" oil? Could the oil type and grade make a difference?

EDIT: Recommended is 10W-30 - anyone with a rattle want to try a synthetic 5W-40 or 10W-40 and see if anything changes? It will give you more protection and slightly higher oil pressure - might help.

40-grade oil is much more common than 30-grade in most cycles. Synthetic is always a good idea IMO, especially if the engine doesn't hold much oil. An inexpensive synthetic that is very good quality, easy to get, and is rated for use with wet clutches is Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 (the 5W refers to it's cold weather rating, and reduces engine wear during cold starts). Oils like Motul and Repsol Ester-based synthetic may be slightly better, but Rotella T6 is still very good for any normal street application IMO.

Last edited by jkv357; 10-05-2011 at 11:00 AM.
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post #28 of 472 Old 10-05-2011, 01:17 PM
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The problem with this problem is that no one can sure that what each of thinks is 'the rattle' is indeed 'the rattle'. After I tightened up my fairing fasteners, my 'rattle' went away. Is this the same rattle as your rattle ?
No one knows. There's a good chance that the rattle that I hear is not the rattle that someone else is hearing. Until someone standardizes this and posts up a sound clip of their rattle, we'll never know if this is a rattle caused by one mechanism or if we're hearing 10 different noises from 10 different causes.

When I got my first bike, a long time ago, I was convinced that every little tapping or pinging noise was surely a death knell.. they weren't.
Later on I heard a bike with a bad conrod small end bearing, now THAT was a bad noise, like someone hitting the engine as hard as they could with a hammer.. The rattle that my 250 had was nothing like that.
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post #29 of 472 Old 10-05-2011, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furious_blue View Post
The problem with this problem is that no one can sure that what each of thinks is 'the rattle' is indeed 'the rattle'. After I tightened up my fairing fasteners, my 'rattle' went away. Is this the same rattle as your rattle ?
No one knows. There's a good chance that the rattle that I hear is not the rattle that someone else is hearing. Until someone standardizes this and posts up a sound clip of their rattle, we'll never know if this is a rattle caused by one mechanism or if we're hearing 10 different noises from 10 different causes.
Well, my rattle never happens when cold. It starts at about 5k as a somewhat random thing that becomes more consistent as rpms increase. I suspect it is there all to way to the limit but other noises mask it. After a long highway run, it is often either not there or less annoying. I wear ear plugs so I don't think it is my ears shutting down.

As to the quality of the noise, it is a tight metallic click of a pretty stiff part. If this was a pushrod engine I would definitely suspect a rocker arm. I have heard a rod bearing failing and there is no doubt that a bad thing is happening. It is also at twice crank speed.

I tried to record it but the microphone caught too much wind noise. A good recording would allow a quick comparison with the rpm to determine conclusively if it is crankshaft speed issue or a camshaft speed issue. If it is rocker arms there would an a distinct pattern in the sound since the intake and exhaust valve operation is not symmetrical within the operation cycle (Intake, Compression, Combustion, Exhaust).

The other day, a cool wet day, it was not there at all.
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post #30 of 472 Old 10-05-2011, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeBeeArr View Post
The other day, a cool wet day, it was not there at all.
Are you sure you guys aren't hearing pinging or detonation? It matches what you all describe as the noise, and, having it disappear in cold wet weather (slows down combustion) sort of verifies that. Additionally, you all say it happens at around 5000-5500 which is right when the torque peaks begins (higher cylinder pressure). Again, this matches the pattern for detonation.

Do me a favour, spend the extra 25 cents and try premium and see if the sound diminishes or goes away.

-Steve

IBA# 44620
2013 CRF250L, 2011 CBR250RA, 2004 FJR 1300
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