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Engine Rattle!!! SIGN UP

153K views 472 replies 146 participants last post by  Mr. Trueno Kovacs 
#1 ·
Hello , let me start by saying that I too have the 5.5k rattle. It is more than annoying as I find myself always listening for it during every ride. I bought this bike because it was a Honda and their great reputation. I am pissed that this brand new bike, that started off rattle free for 350 miles, now sounds like a piece of junk. Yes Ive lubed the chain, checked the bolts I have access to and had first service performed and two shims replaced, yet it still fuc&$%&%$@#$%g rattles. So i propose we all document it here and then direct Honda to the list so there can be no mistake that it is indeed a problem...I want my bike back the one I bought, the one that sounded dreamy, this is unacceptable and it's time to be proactive and get it fixed.....
I KNOW HONDA MUST HAVE A IDEA BY NOW THAT THIS IS A ISSUE BUT THEY SEEM TO NOT WANT TO OWN UP TO IT...SHADY AND DANGEROUS BUSINESS PRACTICE, IMHO....
 
#2 ·
I'm not so sure that it's an engine rattle. I have it too but I think it's coming from someplace else. The rattle doesn't sound very mechanical. It sounds like something is slightly loose and starts rattling when vibrations hit a certain frequency at around 5.5K rpms. If it was the engine I would think it would be rattling through the entire rev range but I am not qualified to state that as anything but theory. An uneducated guess if you will.

It's possible that the console unit may be loose but there's a lot of stuff that has to come off to really check it. There are too many possibilities to list. My left side fairing wasn't snug. After snugging it up the rattle got better but not gone completely so I might be on the right track. I check a couple things every chance I get.
 
#396 ·
buzzing sound - check windscreen

I'm not so sure that it's an engine rattle. I have it too but I think it's coming from someplace else. The rattle doesn't sound very mechanical. It sounds like something is slightly loose and starts rattling when vibrations hit a certain frequency at around 5.5K rpms. If it was the engine I would think it would be rattling through the entire rev range but I am not qualified to state that as anything but theory. An uneducated guess if you will.

It's possible that the console unit may be loose but there's a lot of stuff that has to come off to really check it. There are too many possibilities to list. My left side fairing wasn't snug. After snugging it up the rattle got better but not gone completely so I might be on the right track. I check a couple things every chance I get.
Many of the buzzing problem posts seem to all be coming from the console area at the same RPM range. I have it to and, although I'm used to it and love the bike, have been trying to find the source. Yesterday, I experimented with grabbing the windscreen at the top right side (be careful doing this) when the vibration happened and I'm fairly confident this is the source. It muted the noise substantially when I did this. I am going to check all bolts to the windscreen and possibly shim a tiny bit of foam where it meets the frame to see what happens. I don't think this is engine related.

I'm curious to see if anyone who has replaced the stock windscreen has had a decrease in the buzzing sound (even though it sounds like a major pain in the ass to do).

It's amazing how much this little machine grows on you. When I first rode it out of the lot I was immediately disappointed in the lack of power, but realized after riding a 1000 recently that I dont need that much power and the bike has really broken in well after the 600 mile service and improved in its ability.

Cheers everyone
 
#3 ·
I to find this rattle vary disturbing. I have crawled all over and under this bike and cant find anything loose. It ls sounds like it is coming from the top of the engine ( valve train ) There is a problem with this bike and still no responce from Honda. I have been riding for over 40 years and never had to put up with BS like this.
 
#133 ·
Be patient, you'll become a member of the rattle club very soon. It started at 4,500 km on my bike. But that's not the only issue, my bike doesn't ride well anymore. Sometimes it accelerated smoothly from 110 Km/Hr to 150 Km/Hr, sometimes it didn't accelerate as usual and there were lots of vibrations.
A technician came from the factory and found out that a part needed to be replaced. Now it vibrates all the time. To avoid this I need to change gear above 8,000 rpms and it works fine up to gear 6. At 120Km/Hr, around 7,000 rpms, the engine doesn't accelerate anymore and vibrates a lot.
The mechanics just tell rubbish, they do'nt admit that their 'masterpiece' is just a piece of sh...
I am going to send a letter to the factory, here in Thailand and get help from my lawyer if nothing happens.
Why didn't I buy a Kawasaki Ninja 250cc two cylinders?:mad:
 
#9 ·
I ve read the previous threads on this issue and was rattle free until the first service. My bike purred off the lot. Started reading about the rattle issue...i didnt have it. After i got the first service done...i got the rattle. I noticed it right away..around 5-6ooo rpm. I took it back to dealer..insisted they screwed the valve clearance. They re checked valve clearance..and the did screw up..valve clearance was off. Valves corrected...bike sounded like i bought it.

I am not claiming every rattle thread is related to valves... But in my case it was. To me.. Its the bloody valve clerance not mesured correctly or sloppy valve job. I am 99% convinced the rattle is related to the valves. I had no rattle..then the rattle and after valve fix..no rattle! The rattle sounded like pellets vibrating in a can...and a definite tappet racket between 5-6 rpm...

Take the bike back to dealer who did valve job...insist they re do he valve job!!!
 
#333 ·
I never noticed a significant buzz/rattle until after the first maintenance. I noticed the left under fairing bolt was missing, so I replaced it. Still continues to buzz. According to the dealer that valves were in spec so they did not adjust them. I also noticed that the alternator access cover was damaged (wrong size screwdriver) so I ordered a new one, but I don't thing that has anything to do with the buzz. Also on the first maintenance, when I drove it home I noticed the oil was over full. I drained out two quarts and added 1.5 qts per the manual. It's funny that the dealer charged me for 1 qt of 10W40 oil. Two issues with that - 1. It takes 1.6 qts with a filter change (did they actually change the filter? I drained out 2 qts.) 2 . the owner's manual calls for 10W30, not 10W40, so I replaced it with 10W30. I still can't figure out where that buzz is coming from, but it is real annoying. Maybe I should replace the quiet stock exhaust with something loud so that I won't notice the buzz.
 
#10 ·
i saw another post in another thread somewhere ...the persons dealer contacted honda about the rattle complaint and was told the rattle was the rocker arms....that was all that was mentioned...
so i am assuming they are basically saying its an engine noise..this engine has 5 new patents...we aren't going to start rebuilding everyones motor so you might as get used to it....

this engine rattle is not to be confused with the something loose rattle (i have a metal sounding rattle from in the front fairing somewhere when i hit a bump or alot of rattling when i hit a lot of bumps in a row)
 
#169 ·
A noise coming from the valve train would not require an entire engine rebuild. Thats crazy. I was hoping Honda could find a simple solution to the problem and i think they could if they wanted to. Seems to me if it is a rocker making that rattle then its to sloppy or loose. Maybe a spacer would cure the problem??? I had one of the honda goldwings that was recalled because of frame cracks. Honda paid for every bike to be torn down and rewelded even if there were no cracks yet. Think what that must have cost. Were just talking about a rattle and i still hope they stand behind it.
 
#17 ·
I tried that and I can still hear the rattle between 4.5K and 5.5K if I'm just putting along in town. Of course I don't hear anything when I've got the throttle pinned, but that doesn't go over too well in the residential areas.

I figure I'll just make sure the dealer does any engine work and since Honda knows about the issue and is "playing ostrich" they will have to replace the engine when it decides to let go. I might also be able to get a class action suit out of the deal.

It's really too bad that a company with such a good reputation is willing to piss it away over something as simple as poor tolerances in the valve train. But then again, they blew it on the initial delivery of the CBR250R and the lack of parts for dealers when the 600 mile service came up. Looks like they have an incompetent executive leading this project and have decided to see how far they can let it go without really doing anything to fix the issues and still turn a profit. When things do go Kablooey! they are going to find themselves hemorrhaging money.


 
#12 ·
I KNOW HONDA MUST HAVE A IDEA BY NOW THAT THIS IS A ISSUE BUT THEY SEEM TO NOT WANT TO OWN UP TO IT...SHADY AND DANGEROUS BUSINESS PRACTICE, IMHO....
I think its still a bit too early to start pointing fingers at the manufacture for minor issues such as the engine rattle @ 5000+ RPM. After all, this is the first batch of 250r's from Honda and whose to say that they will not fix this problem with their upcoming 2012 models. As for the 2011s, the solutions I recommend to remedy the situation is to purchase a loud enough exhaust (such as a yoshimura or similar) to mask the rattle in its entirety or by trying to mute it out by wearing ear plugs (only if its legal to do so in your State or country).
 
#13 ·
I had it for over 16,000km.

Then a car knocked my bike over and I got the front farings and headlight assembly replaced.

It vanished immediately.

And is just starting to return now after another 1000km or so. The length of time it took to develop in the first place.

It isn't a constant. And my guess now is that it is something in the headlight assembly that becomes loose and the whole assembly acts like a speaker.
 
#15 ·
Mine doesn't have a rattle, but my boyfriends does and has since first service.......however when we were cleaning them the other night the bolt holding the belly pan on the left side fell out, we're going to try and put back in tonight so will let you know.

Mine goes in for her 1000km service tomorrow, so will have to see......(small thread hi-jack, does anyone else get a strange surging sound at idle (both cold and warm?)
 
#21 ·
Theres no reason for a rattle to come out of the any valve train of any motor. I have had several other single cyl bikes and didnt have this problem. I have had twins, in line 4 cyl, and even flat six cyl motors and NEVER had to listen to anything as annoying as this. If it is coming from the valve train theres something wrong. Honda has no responce and thats really frustrating. Too many people have complaind about the rattle its a real issue.
 
#22 ·
Has anyone else looked into their PAIR valve?
Clicky!

for the record I have the rattle right around 5.5k rpm. At the 600 mile service my valves were adjusted, but it did nothing to reduce the rattle. I'm honestly not too worried about it....
 
#25 ·
Sorry for the brief thread highjack but...

After all my fiddling around, I am convinced that the PAIR valve is not a major source of noise on this engine. I have been running for at least a month with the PAIR valve adjusted to open less that intended. The result is no real change in noise (it still comes and goes) but the exhaust odor suggests that the catalytic convertor needs more air. When fully hot, there is a noticeable 'moth balls' odor. So I will be returning the valve to full operation shortly.

The only new observation I have is that when the engine if full hot and at 5K or so at mid throttle, the rattle is related to the injector somehow. At mid throttle, the injector cutoff can come and go and the rattle seems to do so too. I don't think it is the injector.

Anyway, I am always curious about what other things people notice. Still trying to figure out what could rattle like that other than the engine. But, when it is not there (like today!) it is a mighty fine sounding engine.

Now, back on topic:

The rattle can't be that much of a mechanical defect because, defects don't usually stay the same or get better. Annoying though. Definitely.
 
#24 ·
Mine was completely gone for my commute today. My God does it sounds sweet when it's completely gone.


I personally don't believe it's anything to do with the engine. Probably something around the front of the bike that vibrates at certain rpms and the sounds resonates through the plastic like a speaker.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Seems strange that some would develop a rattle after getting it back from the 600 mi service.

Do you know if they made adjustments to the valves, and what clearance did they adjust them to? Were they loose or tight before?

Is it possible they went with a different oil after servicing than what came originally as a "break-in" oil? Could the oil type and grade make a difference?

EDIT: Recommended is 10W-30 - anyone with a rattle want to try a synthetic 5W-40 or 10W-40 and see if anything changes? It will give you more protection and slightly higher oil pressure - might help.

40-grade oil is much more common than 30-grade in most cycles. Synthetic is always a good idea IMO, especially if the engine doesn't hold much oil. An inexpensive synthetic that is very good quality, easy to get, and is rated for use with wet clutches is Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 (the 5W refers to it's cold weather rating, and reduces engine wear during cold starts). Oils like Motul and Repsol Ester-based synthetic may be slightly better, but Rotella T6 is still very good for any normal street application IMO.
 
#28 ·
The problem with this problem is that no one can sure that what each of thinks is 'the rattle' is indeed 'the rattle'. After I tightened up my fairing fasteners, my 'rattle' went away. Is this the same rattle as your rattle ?
No one knows. There's a good chance that the rattle that I hear is not the rattle that someone else is hearing. Until someone standardizes this and posts up a sound clip of their rattle, we'll never know if this is a rattle caused by one mechanism or if we're hearing 10 different noises from 10 different causes.

When I got my first bike, a long time ago, I was convinced that every little tapping or pinging noise was surely a death knell.. they weren't.
Later on I heard a bike with a bad conrod small end bearing, now THAT was a bad noise, like someone hitting the engine as hard as they could with a hammer.. The rattle that my 250 had was nothing like that.
 
#29 ·
The problem with this problem is that no one can sure that what each of thinks is 'the rattle' is indeed 'the rattle'. After I tightened up my fairing fasteners, my 'rattle' went away. Is this the same rattle as your rattle ?
No one knows. There's a good chance that the rattle that I hear is not the rattle that someone else is hearing. Until someone standardizes this and posts up a sound clip of their rattle, we'll never know if this is a rattle caused by one mechanism or if we're hearing 10 different noises from 10 different causes.
Well, my rattle never happens when cold. It starts at about 5k as a somewhat random thing that becomes more consistent as rpms increase. I suspect it is there all to way to the limit but other noises mask it. After a long highway run, it is often either not there or less annoying. I wear ear plugs so I don't think it is my ears shutting down.

As to the quality of the noise, it is a tight metallic click of a pretty stiff part. If this was a pushrod engine I would definitely suspect a rocker arm. I have heard a rod bearing failing and there is no doubt that a bad thing is happening. It is also at twice crank speed.

I tried to record it but the microphone caught too much wind noise. A good recording would allow a quick comparison with the rpm to determine conclusively if it is crankshaft speed issue or a camshaft speed issue. If it is rocker arms there would an a distinct pattern in the sound since the intake and exhaust valve operation is not symmetrical within the operation cycle (Intake, Compression, Combustion, Exhaust).

The other day, a cool wet day, it was not there at all.
 
#31 ·
^ Another good idea that's worth a try.

What made me think it wasn't detonation was that it could be heard while reving not under load, IIRC. Typically, detonation will occur under heavy load.

Cooler and damp conditions would tend to keep the engine running on the cooler side, which should reduce the chances of detonation as well.

But hey - give it a try.

I'd like to hear it, because it certainly could be a vibration, coming from something besides the engine, that's being magnified and focused toward the rider.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Just a few things. (mine has really cleared up since replacing the front farings and headlight assembly.) But sometimes returns with less intensity.

When I had it or it develops again it typically last for a range of around 2000rpm. It seems to start lower in 1st and second gears, from around 4,500rpm up to 6500. And then in the other gears from around 5500rpm up to around 7000rpm.


For those who developed it straight after a service, it possibly happened if they took the fairings off and then didn't tighten them up well enough. It could simply be that. Mine sounded like it was straight off the dealer's floor again after I had the front fairings/headlight replaced. That was after 16000km or so of the grindy rattling.

About 1000km later I had to get a relay for the indicators and the dash had to come out again. As soon as it was put back in and tightened up it sounded brand new again.

I would say that it being a single, things become a tiny bit loose quicker, and when they do the amount of plastic that is on this bike becomes a big speaker for any buzzing that happens and multiplies up to this grinding noise that some of us hear.


A good check would be to get your dealer to strip it bare and you ride it around for a few hours, or do it yourself if you have a day off and the tools. :)
 
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