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post #21 of 81 Old 05-13-2012, 04:14 PM
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Its a miracle that anyone ever buys one of these useless pieces of crap. Everything in the world must be perfect all the time...no exceptions.
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post #22 of 81 Old 05-13-2012, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Agreed... I'll add that any engine, whether air cooled or liquid cooled, carbureted or EFI, should ALWAYS be given a short warm up period to allow the internal parts to heat and expand, before the motor is subjected to loading at RPM. Short changing you engine warm up time, to pinch a few pennies worth of fuel is just plain dumb. Sorry, but I have to call it like I see it. Still its your engine, treat it as you see fit.

Would you think that Formula One team's just fire up one of those engines and head out onto the track, and immediately put down hot laps, just because it has EFI, liquid cooling and engine management computers? Not a chance. They have a very specific engine start up protocol, including heat cycles, and stepped RPM cycling prior to warm up laps. Only then is the engine deemed ready to unleash its 975 HP.
I don't think any of us consider the CBR250R a Formula One machine, or freshly rebuild our engines before every race/drive, or consistently rev to 16,000 rpms and pull 1000+ horsepower, so I don't think this analogy is applicable, nor have I ever considered my actions dumb. Sure, we'd all agree that allowing an engine to warm up to full operating temperature before any rise above idle would be ideal. But I'm also sure you don't do that for your bike for every ride, or let your car warm for 20 minutes for every drive now do you? If you do, I'd suggest otherwise, because more than likely you're going to foul your cat with soot from the consistent rich idle mixture collecting in your headers and not getting blown out by driving. Seen it many times before, and cats are more expensive than gas.

The small, miniscule amount of wear prevented is pretty much negligible as long as you ride your bike easily until it warms up. It only takes about 5-10 seconds for the oil pump to fully circulate oil to all the moving parts, including the cams, unless you're running jello in the crankcase. And if you run synthetic, and drive it nearly daily as in my case, the synthetic oil forms a nice film over all moving parts and helps to prevent dry starts. Check any clean MPG forum or test, they say to not let your vehicle idle. The RPM's are high, and the mixture is rich, and while idling, you're just wasting fuel. While driving, it warms the engine up much faster and you're actually contributing that energy that would be wasted during warmup to your commute. So there's no paradox here; idling to warm up uses more fuel than just driving it. And I never said to start it up and IMMEDIATELY flog the crap out of it. THAT would be dumb. Just drive it easy until it's warm. It's not tuned aggressively or a performance machine; it is a common market amateur's bike and when proper maintenance is followed, should be able to turn and burn. We're not talking about the space shuttle here.

But we digress. I don't think it's an issue to happen on the rare occasion, I just think a 1 in 10 chance is a little high. My car is fuel injected, and it never cuts out on throttle crack from a cold start, so neither should this bike. I never expected it to be perfect, and neither should anyone else, especially this early in its life, but I do expect it to start first thing and be ready to go without croaking out. I started this thread just to see if this was commonly experienced occasionally by other riders, not to have my intelligence directly insulted. I've been under hoods and bikes since I was 7, and from all 600,000 miles I've put on my vehicles I've yet to have an engine related problem. Not to mention all this has nothing to do with the engine cutting out. So I suggest we keep the topic focused on what it was created for and not nitpicking people's startup procedures. It should NEVER cut out on first start; period. Unless there is something seriously wrong with the engine management, and I think we'd all know it if there was.
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post #23 of 81 Old 05-13-2012, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Deanohh View Post
Its a miracle that anyone ever buys one of these useless pieces of crap. Everything in the world must be perfect all the time...no exceptions.
Nothing is perfect.



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post #24 of 81 Old 05-13-2012, 06:48 PM
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This has only happened to me once, I am pretty sure it was my own fault since I tried to start going as soon as I fired it up. Now I just wait a few seconds and have not had a problem since.
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post #25 of 81 Old 05-13-2012, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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That seems to be the consensus. I believe my issue was only magnified due to the fact that I believe my injector was dirty. I think it was just a culmination of unique situations in my case of racing fuel stored in the bike over winter with low miles.
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post #26 of 81 Old 05-13-2012, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Wynne G Oldman View Post
Nothing is perfect.
You're right Wynne... however some think that everything should be, not only perfect, but effortless too.
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post #27 of 81 Old 05-13-2012, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cbrlocal View Post
I don't think any of us consider the CBR250R a Formula One machine, or freshly rebuild our engines before every race/drive, or consistently rev to 16,000 rpms and pull 1000+ horsepower, so I don't think this analogy is applicable, nor have I ever considered my actions dumb.
My point was this... The fact that an engine has EFI, liquid cooling, etc., doesn't mean that you can turn the key, hit the start button and your good to go. My reference to an F1 car, was not intended to be literal. As to the "dumb" statement, it was not intended to be taken personally by you or anyone else. If you took it as such, thats your choice.
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post #28 of 81 Old 05-13-2012, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MotoMike View Post
My point was this... The fact that an engine has EFI, liquid cooling, etc., doesn't mean that you can turn the key, hit the start button and your good to go. My reference to an F1 car, was not intended to be literal. As to the "dumb" statement, it was not intended to be taken personally by you or anyone else. If you took it as such, thats your choice.
Well, the point of the bike's setup is to be point-and-shoot, per se. It is designed to be ready to go from the start. What I'm trying to get at is there should be no stumble; every instance of lean or rich, choke position, throttle position, engine temp; it's all accounted for in the engine management monitoring. So it shouldn't cut off unless something physical is happening, or ignition, fuel pump, etc. If it runs fine at all other instances, it's quite the mystery, hints my initial confusion about the situation.

And no, I didn't take it personally. I'm quite the passive person and don't intend to instigate harshness. But just because someone doesn't idle their engine to operating temperature before riding off doesn't automatically constitute them, or the action, as being "dumb". When ridden easily, it helps to warm it faster and is more fuel efficient. Being as poor as I am, I pinch every penny. Problem is, with a bike this fun to ride, I'm sure it's hard for people to keep the right hand out of it for a few minutes while it warms...

Last edited by cbrlocal; 05-13-2012 at 09:19 PM.
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post #29 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by cbrlocal View Post
So I've seen a few people with issues similar to mine, but not exactly the same. When I go out to my bike in the morning, it starts up no problem. Occasionally, it will randomly just die. I will then have to start it again and it's fine. Sometimes as well, it will start and idle fine (this is the majority of the time), but when I go to take off it hiccups and sometimes stalls. So now, I usually blip the throttle as soon as I get it started, and I can feel the initial desire to choke out, but then it revs fine after that initial throttle blip. This as I said is a cold start from sitting overnight, so it's not vapor lock. This thing is fuel injected and has an automatic choke. I'm wondering if the choke is not closing fully? This also didn't seem to be such an issue during the colder months, so I'm again wondering about the choke not fully enriching the mixture and coupled with the warmer, leaner temperatures, I'm getting a stall. I'm also running BP fuel, and have tried several different gas stations all to the same result, so it's not the gas. Has anyone else experienced this on their first cold starts and having to blip the throttle?

i had that problem when i got my baby back in december. mentioned it to a biker friend of mine and he pointed out it might be fuel starvation. since the bike is parked (on the stand) at a slanting angle. so all you need to do is straight the bike (handle bar at center), let the buzz check complete and press start. worked ever since. never cuts out even on cold mornings (tropical mornings). give it a go... see if it works on yours. good luck.
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post #30 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Wouldn't that only affect it if the bike was near empty? It's done it with a full tank before. Thanks for the input!
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