Symptoms of 10% ethanol fuel on the CBR - Page 2 - Honda CBR250R Forum : Honda CBR 250 Forums
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post #11 of 49 Old 05-23-2015, 01:12 AM
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faa banned ethanol in aviation fuel in 1960's..

some engine manufacturers [eg, ducati] ban use of
ethanol in their engines, while some respond with
warnings, listing known ethanol effects on engines..

anyone can confirm ethanol effects with basic google
searches using keys such as 'ethanol + ban/damage/
faa/epa/motorcycle [etc]

same source as above ref on phase-separation
if followed thru contains or links with all this
ethanol use, bans, restrictions and so on..

unrelated engine manufacturers and others
in different societies state exactly similar
warnings on ethanol effects..
including effects on basic engine performance
outside of actual damage to components etc,
such as; poor starting, engine stalling,
reduced fuel economy and power, etc..

manufacturers give warnings on use of up to,
10% ethanol, along with warnings on effects
on engines etc, for valid warrenty coverage..

thing is, apparently, people who seem to know
are stating that what you actually pump into
your [motorcycle] engine may be way over
10% ethanol for various stated reasons..

these include lack of diligence, incompetence,
laziness, but also various deliberate ploys
to increase profits..
and to get rid of mandated ethanol
in blends, which motorists are rejecting..

there is so much you can do to research and
find out about anything, but ethanol is one
subject where there is heaps of solid info
available today..

[that fcaai list of vehicles not suitable
for ethanol includes motorcycles
up to 2012 models]

i simply choose to not put ethanol in
my honda engine, for what seem to me
to be good rational reasons..

but, to each their own..
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post #12 of 49 Old 05-23-2015, 02:27 AM
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Here, it's so widespread there's no way I could fill up with ethanol-free gas. The closest reported station that has it only has it in premium 93, not 87, and it's 38 miles away. The next station that has 87 ethanol-free is reportedly a QuikTrip station, and there's no way I'm putting that in my tank again. So for me and probably many others in the States, there's just no practical way of getting ethanol free gas for our vehicles.

Tis better to be thought a fool and remain silent, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
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post #13 of 49 Old 05-23-2015, 08:22 AM
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Basically all gas is E10 where I live. That is normal gas now. I ride 400 miles/ 640km back and forth to work every week. I don't have time to seek out special gas at a marina every time I want to fill up. E10 won't hurt anything on a modern, fuel injected bike.


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Last edited by sendler; 05-23-2015 at 04:11 PM.
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post #14 of 49 Old 05-23-2015, 08:40 AM
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Mine got build for E10 (2012 Model)
(see tank sticker, below)

Aviation fuel still has lead
Airplanes with use of gasoline are not always young.
Same problem you have with antique cars.
And a logistic problem: They never know, if and how many show up, on this airport. How much would you stock?
And in the end: Ethanol Fuel contains (can contain) more water, as normal fuel.
How cold can it get, up there? Even on a sunny day?
Safety first!

Btw: What is with the ban on marine fuel?

You know, in case, there is injection on a bike, there is almost no reason, to believe, it can't use E10.
And if it can't, the manufacturer will tell you, to fill only with the good stuff! But not put a sticker on the tank, or an 'up to E10' in the manual

You know, in Thailand they almost stopped No-E fuel.
Sometimes, you can't even get it on stations, pricing it.
'Sold out'
With a carb bike, it was really challenging, in the past, sometimes.
In the end, you (I) went for some E5 V-Power, with lots of additives.
Plus some 2 stroke oil, sometimes, in the tank
Silently they changed the E from 5 to 10, there, too
(Silently for me, minimum ;-)
Still worked.

But I'm with you! In Malaysia, the only E10, till now, is the New Pantai Expressway (afaik).
And I was pretty happy, with the 97, I got there.
Even my consumption went noticeable down, about 0.2-0.3l/100km.
That's about 10%. And I add for about 500 or 1000 km, before I check on this.
But part of that is probably the 97, instead of 'only' 95.

But my point here is, the CBR250R is build for E10.

As long the E10 means, up to 10% Ethanol, and not minimum 10% Ethanol in, I think, there is no risk!
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post #15 of 49 Old 05-23-2015, 12:02 PM
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The marine users have had an even worse time with E10 destroying their fiberglass fuel tanks than us motorcyclists. The ethanol leaches the resin out of the fiberglass and destroys the tank. Not to mention the damage done to the fuel injectors or carbs by the resin mixed in with the gas. it is bad enough when your bike stops running on the road, but imagine the problems if your boat stops miles from shore. I personally have seen carbs on bikes where the slides got gummed up after only one tank of E10 in a fiberglass MC tank to the point where they stuck in position. Not a good thing to have happen to you in the middle of a ride. Aprilia (and Ducati, I think) was using Nylon gas tanks for a while. My 2001 and 2002 Futuras had them. The ethanol in the gas would swell the tank to the point where it would not fit properly. No obvious damage, but the tank elongated to the point where I would have to use levers to move the tank into the proper position. Empty the tank and let it air dry for a few days and it would fit properly again.
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post #16 of 49 Old 05-23-2015, 03:30 PM
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I wasn't aware of fiberglass fuel tanks for marine use... must be really old boats that you might find a 'glass fuel tank. I have heard that some of the current portable outboard fuel tanks made of PE plastic have a fairly short life span.

I have a 1991 Evinrude 6 HP two stroke outboard, and according to the OMC factory service manual, it can use gasoline with up to 10% ethanol... they specifically list E10 as an 'acceptable' fuel, and non-ethanol gas as the 'preferred' fuel. Luckily, my outboard came with the classic OMC 3 gallon steel fuel tank, and has a brand new ethanol compatible hose/primer assembly.

Seems to me the potential issue for ethanol blended gas in marine use is the obvious proximity to water, and with ethanol attracting water.

For my money, I'd rather take my chances with fresh ethanol blended gas for my outboard that I bought from a local station near home, than some old non-ethanol gas that has sitting around fermenting in some marina's storage tank out in the middle of nowhere.

Last edited by MotoMike; 05-23-2015 at 03:37 PM.
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post #17 of 49 Old 05-23-2015, 04:51 PM
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Mike, define "really old boats". It wasn't that long ago when E10 was introduced and started destroying old tanks on boats and motorcycles. After al,l there are those among us who ride 45 year old Nortons with fiberglass tanks. Those that are ridden regularly have had the petrol tanks coated internally with Caswells or some other sealant to protect against the ethanol in modern gas. Every now and then I run across someone with a "barn find" bike who filled the tank with E10 and destroyed it, along with gunking up the carbs.

It is a whole lot easier to coat a motorcycle tank than to do the same on a boat with an inboard motor.
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post #18 of 49 Old 05-23-2015, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commandodave View Post
Mike, define "really old boats"...
... any boat with a built in fiberglass fuel tank.
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post #19 of 49 Old 05-23-2015, 09:32 PM
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aside from other peoples aircraft or marine engines
or classic bikes or whatever cars,, the question
for me, and my motorcycle, does not apply..

the known chemistry of it, makes it obvious
[to me anyway] that clean unpolluted petrol
is the only serious choice for my motorcycle..

if youre going to put it in your tank
check out precautions in the link..

E10 Ethanol: Recommended engine precautions
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post #20 of 49 Old 05-24-2015, 04:41 AM
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The best precautions, on a 'made for E10 use' bike, imho:
Fill up to the max, every time you fill gas. That prevents from having a lot of air in the tank, with a lot of moisture in it.
Here it's often 80+% humid. On 30 degree centigrade.
And in case, I do not drive that much, I refill at half full, mostly
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