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post #1 of 51 Old 09-04-2015, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Charging System Problems- help please!

Hey all,
The other day I got caught in a traffic jam. As I was sitting there, the bike died. I ended up jumping it off of a car, and got it home but now can't figure out what exactly is wrong with the bike, other then something with the charging system is bad Thus far I have done:

Voltage check while running: At idle the voltage was around 11.2 and dropping. at 5k rpms the DC voltage is 12.5v.

Rectifier/Regulator diode check:
All diodes operated in the correct direction and showed 0.48ish volts.

Stator Check:
When Hot, the resistance for the 3 phases were 0.2, 0.3 and 0.4 ohms.
after around 5 minutes of cooling off, all 3 phases show around 0.5 ohms(this is also what they show bone cold after an overnight sit). Because of this; I figured that the stator would be bad so I drained the oil and took off the left crank-case cover. However, the stator looks perfectly fine and has no burn marks. Could it still be bad?

I also did the AC voltage test. Between the + and ground it was around 30V. Between the stator phases it varied wildly from 60-120AC volts.

What would your recommendations be for me to do next? The left crank-case cover is currently off and there is no oil in the engine so I can no longer do any tests with the bike running.

for a little more background information: It's a 2012 model (no ABS), and currently has around 12k miles on it. It had a full tune up done @ 9k miles. Around 7k miles have been put on in the past year.

Thank you for your time and advice!
-Joe5181

Last edited by Joe5181; 09-04-2015 at 05:35 PM. Reason: more information
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post #2 of 51 Old 09-04-2015, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe5181 View Post
Hey all,
The other day I got caught in a traffic jam. As I was sitting there, the bike died. I ended up jumping it off of a car, and got it home but now can't figure out what exactly is wrong with the bike, other then something with the charging system is bad Thus far I have done:

Voltage check while running: At idle the voltage was around 11.2 and dropping. at 5k rpms the DC voltage is 12.5v...
Sounds like you've got a bad battery.

I'd go back to the battery and rule that out first as the cause of the problem... pull the battery from the bike, charge it fully and then have it load tested (most auto parts stores can load test it for you).

Unlike a carbureted vehicle (even those with electronic ignition systems), vehicles with EFI systems require a battery that is capable of holding a full charge in order to operate properly.
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post #3 of 51 Old 09-04-2015, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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I had actually already planned to have it tested tomorrow; So I'll make sure I leave it on the tender tonight and bring it with me tomorrow. What voltage should it be at when it comes off the tender? I'll check it before I leave in the morning, and will also check before I put it on to see if there is a difference.
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post #4 of 51 Old 09-04-2015, 06:31 PM
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Fully charged, it should be showing 13.0 - 13.2V
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post #5 of 51 Old 09-05-2015, 07:50 AM
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Charging system quick check

According to this your charging system is not working.

This is from the YUASA BATTERY TECHNICIAL MANUAL Available on their website.

Charging System Quick Check

A quick check of a powersport vehicle’s charging system can be

performed using a digital voltmeter. Connect the voltmeter leads

directly to the battery (red to positive and black to the negative

terminals). Read the open circuit voltage and start the engine.

Operate the engine between 3000 to 4000 rpm while watching

the reading on the voltmeter. If the vehicle’s charging system

maintains voltage between 13.0 and 14.5 volts, the charging

system is probably working properly. If voltage is the same as

open circuit voltage (usually less than 13 volts) the charging

system is not working and further diagnosis will have to be

performed. Installing a new battery in a powersports vehicle with

a faulty charging system will eventually result in a dead battery

and an unhappy customer. Always use the OE service manual as

a guide for further testing and diagnosis of the charging system.



This wont help you with the engine open but I'm adding it for other people.

Battery Load Testing

Once the battery is charged and passes the open circuit voltage

test its time to determine if it can really perform its main job—

starting the engine. It might seem obvious that if the starter

button is pressed and the engine starts, the battery must be

OK. While a marginal battery might start an engine a few

times, it may not reliably start it in the future—especially in

cold weather.

There are two tools that can be used for load testing: a dedicated

battery load tester, or a digital voltmeter. The load tester can

be used when the battery is not installed in a vehicle. The load

tester simulates the electrical load of a starter motor to load-
test the battery. These testers are usually used by dealerships

and are able to adjust the load applied to the battery under

test. Always follow the instructions that apply to the specifi c

battery load tester. In general, apply a load of three times the

ampere-hour rating. After 10 seconds check the battery voltage

with the load still applied. A good 12-volt battery will not drop

below 9.5 volts (ambient temperature of 70° F). A 6-volt battery

should drop no more than 5.25 volts. If the voltage reading is

below these minimums replace the battery.

As an alternative to the load tester, the vehicles starter

motor can be used to provide the load to test the battery.

To load test the battery, cranking voltage must be measured.

Low cranking voltage will indicate that the battery is getting

tired and should be replaced. Following are the steps for

performing a battery load test using a digital voltmeter and

the vehicle’s starter motor.

Connect a digital voltmeter directly to the battery—red lead

to the positive terminal and black lead to negative. While

watching the voltmeter, press the start button and crank

the engine’s starter (it’s OK if the engine starts). Just before

the engine starts, note the voltmeter reading. As the starter

motor places an electrical load on the battery, cranking

voltage will normally drop. If battery voltage drops below

9.5 volts (at 70° F) while the engine is cranking over,

the battery needs to be replaced. If the engine starts too

quickly to read cranking voltage, the ignition or fuel injection

computer fuse can be removed. This will allow the starter

motor to operate (without the engine starting) and cranking

voltage can be measured.

The grass is always greener . . .

Last edited by gyrotumbler; 09-05-2015 at 11:10 AM.
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post #6 of 51 Old 09-05-2015, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Just wanted to update everyone; I had the battery checked. When it came off the tender it was at about 13.05 volts and went to about 12.6 3 hours later when it tested.
What would my next step be? I already have a new crank case gasket ordered so whenever it comes in I can put everything back together if necessary for more testing.
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post #7 of 51 Old 09-05-2015, 02:32 PM
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It takes a long time to charge using a small battery charger. Your 12.6 v reading means the battery is not fully charged. charge it some more.


Open circuit voltage indicates

what percent of charge the battery has reached after charging.

Open circuit voltage for a fully, 100% charged AGM battery is

12.8 to 13.0 volts. AGM batteries that are 75% to 100% charged

will measure 12.5 to 12.8 volts.


Charging a battery using the vehicle’s charging system or a

battery charger creates a “surface” charge across the battery’s

cells. The surface charge needs to be removed before an

accurate test for open circuit voltage can be performed. To

remove the surface charge, turn on the ignition key for about

three minutes then turn it off. Now let the battery sit for about

10 minutes. This step is not necessary if the battery has been

sitting for 1 hour after charging is complete.

The grass is always greener . . .
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post #8 of 51 Old 09-05-2015, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry; I guess I hadn't put in the previous post but the battery tested fine for a load test @ advance auto parts. I'll leave it on a tender regardless; until I know my next step

Last edited by Joe5181; 09-05-2015 at 04:47 PM.
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post #9 of 51 Old 09-05-2015, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Also; before I put the battery back on the tender; I checked the voltage with a Fluke 87 multi meter and it read 12.97 so either my multi meter is out of spec or the Advance one is.

Not currently sure what else I can do at this point other then order a new stator and hope that fixes the problem. I just don't want to do that, and have it still having the same problem but with $120 gone. Anyone else have any advice or other tests that I could preform to test the charging system. I originally went down the flow chart from electrosport, but it was relatively inconclusive.
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post #10 of 51 Old 09-06-2015, 11:14 AM
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I doubt if your fluke is off but you can check it with a new single cell battery. A new D, C, or AA, battery should measure 1.65 volts.

Look for corrosion on the stator and rectifier plug connector pins plus battery cable connection I use dielectric grease on any electrical connection I take apart. Riding in the rain and washing the bike can get water in places you don’t want it.

There is a conflict in the Helm manual. In two different places they state the Stator resistance Standard is .1 to 1 ohm. In the troubleshooting chart on page 17-5 they have replace coil if that is the reading. I think they have the yes and no backward. I will let Helm know about this. I believe you stator resistance is correct, but check each lead to ground, should be no continuity.

You need to do a current leakage test. DO NOT turn on ignition switch while doing this.

With all charging system connectors connected. Disconnect neg battery cable and with key turned OFF connect ammeter between neg battery post and neg battery cable, start on highest current range, then switch to lower ranges. .34 mA is max allowed. DO NOT turn on ignition switch while doing this.

If you get a higher reading unplug regulator/rectifier to see if that is the problem.

Rectifiers can also check good but can leak or break down under load. This is something you cannot check.

In your opening post your measured voltage with the engine running lead me to believe the charging system was not working properly, but if the charging voltage was higher than the battery voltage things are ok. Your battery voltage could have been 10 volts then everything would have been operating properly.

My nanny said to tell you to get a service manual. All the honda service technicians have one.
I must admit I don’t always listen to her.

I saw a used Helm manual on ebay last week for $35.
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