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CBR250 or scooter for full time student?

14K views 65 replies 28 participants last post by  Pro 
#1 ·
Full time 16 yr old student will be attending two schools come Sept where he'll need to drive himself 10 miles, where 5 miles is on hwy @ 65mph, to a University in the afternoon to take classes not offered at his primary school. On the way home, he'll be navigating through downtown @ 5pm, w/ 8 miles of street light to street light urban traffic going in the opposite direction from h/s & university.

M/C license for 16 yr old in his state has no engine size restrictions. He is taking his car driving lessons currently at a driving school. He's going to a m/c riding school in two weeks. After getting his m/c license, he can choose from a CBR250 or Burgman 400 scooter. Both have ABS, both hwy capable/legal. Buying a different scooter or m/c is not an option since these two bikes have already been bought, are ready to ride, & title in hand.

Pros: CBR250
Cool factor is huge for a h/s student
70mpg a big plus vs. 45mpg for 400 scooter
Fun bike for riding twisties on weekends
350 lb weight vs. 450 lbs for scooter
'
Pros: Burgman 400
automatic trans, twist and go, makes riding much easier downtown
Locking storage under seat for helmet, jacket, gloves, rain gear, & tools.
Locking glove box handy for GPS & extra gloves & ear plugs & sunglass.
Better wind/rain protection from head to toe vs. CBR

So which bike would you choose?
Would like to hear from someone - preferably h/s + college students - which bike they prefer and why.
 
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#2 ·
High school senior. Been riding since I turned 16. I drove a scooter for a little before getting my cbr. Cbr is obviously a lot cooler but I feel like learning to shift and really handle a curve the correct way for young person is a lot to handle to start. However the scooter is going to be a lot faster than the cbr so you'll have to understand your son will be driving VERY fast for a new rider. On the cbr, riding with a passenger can easily be delayed since it is really no fun shifting multiple times before even reaching 20mph. On the scooter, that argument isn't really valid. It's recommended to ride over 1200 miles on your own before even considering taking a passenger(at least what my msf instructor told me) which I would strongly recommend. Sorry if none of this makes sense-I'm still waking up
 
#3 ·
Which one would you care less about when he lays it down, or crashes it?... which you know is going to happen.

If he were my 16 year old, he would be learning to become a competent rider off road before getting anywhere near a street legal bike or scooter.
 
#4 ·
I would price insurance on both of them for him.

As for convenience and practically I would choose the scooter.

If you know hes gonna use it for pleasure I would go with the CBR
 
#5 · (Edited)
I got my CBR last year (1 year on January 17th!) and have recently made it my primary form of transportation. I will be getting another car before transferring from my community college to an out of town university in the Fall of 2015 and am in my 2nd year at the community college.

So far, I'm loving just having the bike, even when it's raining and 40 degrees at night. I rode a lot before selling my car for a full time student while working part time. I've put on 9,000 miles on two wheels. Just in the past month I've put on almost 1,000 miles riding to and from work, school, and personal trips. My normal rides are at most ~20 miles round trip.

We have mild winters but tomorrow, my first day of class for Spring semester, will be below freezing. With proper gear, a tail bag and possibly a tank bag for even more storage, I have no issues just having the bike. If there was ever snow or ice (a rare occurrence here), I could borrow my mom's car. My only concern will be riding with my backpack in the rain and getting any textbooks and folders wet. I think I'll be throwing everything in the tail bag to keep it dry until getting to school.

If severe winter is not a factor where you are, I'd have no hesitations getting either but I love my bike and don't care for scooters or the popular 49cc mopeds here. I only had experience as a passenger on bikes with family, from Harley's to 1000cc sport bikes a handful of times, years ago. I've dropped my bike twice, once in the driveway and once while stalling the engine leaving a stop sign in the first days of owning it resulting in just a scratched exhaust cover (which I've replaced with the Arrow exhaust) and bar end. I've only locked up my non-abs rear tire once on my first day riding while stopping for a red light. After the MSF course a few months before getting my bike and my first few rides, I learned quickly. At a local Bike Safe event held by the sheriff's office, the officers were amazed at how developed my riding technique and skills are for such little experience.

I'd definitely take a look at the costs between the two and definitely shop around for insurance. I went from 300/year for state min. liability to high limit liability/uninsured and comprehensive/collision with $500 deductible for $240/year. I also live in the highest accident rated county in the state. Sign him up for the MSF course and talk to the rider coaches to see how he did. After that, they say you're ready to safely naviagate an empty parking lot. I think I was prepared for more and didn't face some of the challenges mentinoned by HS Rider. The manual trans and cornering wasn't too much of an issue for me. I just had the "death grip" on the bars, not wanting to drop my precious bike. I do know 99% of riders will hit the asphalt, it's just a matter of time. I feel like having a lot of driving experience (25k miles in the three years I had my car) helped prepare me to be a defensive rider, experience your 16 year old won't have.

Bottom line, I think with my experience I'd go with the CBR. It really is a great bike for me and I continue to practice and develop my skills. I'm happy I had the opportunity to start out young and look forward to getting something with a little more power after graduating and starting my career (mainly interested in the 650F, 600RR, Triumph 675). Hopefully my reply is helpful, somewhat rushed and scattered because I'm supposed to be working on university applications. Oops.
*Edit, I got the bike at 18 with two years driving experience. I'm now 19
 
#6 ·
CBR's insurance will actually probably be cheaper. It will also have a better fun factor and better learning curve for a new rider and much higher MPG's. Although the automatic transmission on the scooter is convenient, it teaches nothing about proper control techniques.

Even for practicality, there's nothing I'd want to carry on a bike any larger than what I can fit in my top bags or bookbag. So I say CBR all the way, but we're probably a little biased here. :)

The 400 is actually pretty quick, so I'd also say keep him off of that. It's easy to get carried away on those things.
 
#7 ·
Let me welcome you to the forum.

I agree with MotoMike on encouraging a 16 year old to hone his motorcycle skills on the dirt before venturing onto the street. It is there that he will truly learn how to operate a motorcycle without the threat of heavy traffic. As you posted he is very new to driving. Operating a motorcycle requires the rider to be hyper-alert thus, it goes without saying that the more driving experience a person has, the better off he will be learning to ride a bike. I had been driving for 25 years, both as a civilian and as a emergency vehicle operator before taking up this sport. When I learned to ride a MC I was actually surprised at how much energy it took. I would arrive home from a ride and be exhausted.

As his parent you know your son's maturity and level of responsibility. Perhaps you ride a bike yourself. I wish the best in finding a mode of transportation that best meets your sons needs. Cheers :D
 
#8 ·
i don't think there is much of a question here...friends don't let friends ride scooters.

But in all seriousness, I don't know if it's too good of an idea to put your average 16 year old on a motorcycle in the street. I'm not going to tell you how to be a parent, but I'd only pull the trigger on this if he already has plenty of 2 wheels experience. I grew up riding dirt bikes my whole life and I still had plenty to learn when I went to the street. Maturity level plays a big factor too IMO
 
#9 ·
hi here concerned parent - my youngest daughter, with no driving or riding
experience, recently bought herself a 250 suzuki motorcycle..
may i say as a parent and lifelong motorcyclist [started on a scoot at 16]
that while a scooter may have been ok for her within certain limited uses,
she will be riding on real roads, including some traffic, and highway,
therefore it pleases me as her father that she is not,, on a scooter
but on a good small but adequate, motorcycle...

but ok, firstly, an automatic gearbox while imo not,, an advantage
and not helpful at all in developing riding skills necessary for survival
let alone riding pleasure, and is only one difference to consider..

without mounting the full argument here, a preliminary quote from
a burgman 400 roadapart test review;
'Lets make this clear from the start;
Nobody is going to rush out and buy
a scooter to replace their motorcycle.'

my scooter [at 16] threw me off riding down a hill
of a poor road when its small front wheel fell into
a pothole, sending me flying to slide along the road
on my front.. took ages for the nurse to pick out
all the gravel embedded in my skin..

even tho, todays scooters have improved by taking in
design elements from motorcycles, this one still has
small wheels - 14" front and 13" back..

engines in motorcycles are positioned just forward of
midships below and forward of he rider, for enhanced
center of gravity, balance of front and back, and so on..
the engine in that scooter is placed on, the rear swing arm,
at the rear of he motorcycle, below and behind, the rider..

this positioning was designed into scooters to allow for
women in particular to mount the scooter by stepping onto it,
rather than lifting a leg up to hip level over the seat to mount,
then to ride with her legs together rather than spread apart..
this was for modesty, as the riding position, legs forward
as in a chair with a covering panel in front..

this was and no doubt is an excellent factor for ladies in skirts etc,
but,, it was not and is not based on improved handling dynamics,
which is why two wheeled racing at all levels is not, with scooters..

with engine mounted on, the swing arm, which pivots up and down
to absorb bumps and other forces, any bump or road force will,
and must, cause instability which will take longer for the suspension
to overcome and bring back to equilibrium..

of course, if you only ever ride on perfect road surfaces
this is a lesser evil.. the point however is as to inherent
design of the scooter relative to the motorcycle..

this scooter with its low center of gravity and long wheelbase
[a foot longer than typical scoots] will be more stable
- than a typical scoot - at the high speeds it is capable of..

longer wheelbases however come at a price, ie, low to average
speed stability.. this may not be a big thing in terms of typical
sedate riding on good roads without emergency evasions etc,
but is mentioned here as another eg of differences between
the scooter and the motorcycle..

weight, is always important for single track vehicles..
this scooter is heavy, even compared to some big motorcycles..
novices in their first period of riding are far and away the most
likely to drop their motorcycle, or scooter..
from a standstill when parking etc, or stopping at lights,
or due to unexpected road conditions or surfaces
which the novice has not yet learned to identify..

if it moves not too far past its vertical alignment,
then its basically muscle power that will prevent it
from falling over all the way, including onto
the riders legs.. the lighter it is, the easier to control
and manage, the heavier, the more likely to drop..

finally, as motomike and other experienced riders have stressed,
good fundamentals drilled in with regular consistent practice,
are vital,, and essential,, for even basic safety
regardless of what is to be ridden..

and well done consulting this forum, which has members
from worldwide with wide depths of experience and
understandings as to motorcyles and riding them..

whatever you son gets, its a very good idea to join
a forum dedicated to that motorcycle or scooter..

enthusiast clubs and groups are another excellent resource
as are any expert lessons or rider training courses..

even if its 'just for transport',, riding it is still
precious life moments ticking away...

it should be and can be, a real positive,
and enjoyable even pleasurable experience..

good luck...
 
#10 ·
Just to give another vote to it--DEFINITELY sign your son up for MSF. I was required by law to take it to get my license since I am a minor. I know things, and can see things better than my dad who has obviously been riding longer than me(he never took the course) since I was taught by guys who have been riding for a combined 50+ years. I learned things you can only learn from experience-from rare occurrences to crashes. These instructors know what it really takes to ride safely on the road and can judge whether someone is ready or not- there were grown adults unable to pass this class. If these adults listened and didn't go ahead and get a bike their lives were potentially saved.

I also know since I was your son's age too, he will push whatever he ends up riding to its max-the first day I had my Cbr I was driving over 70mph and I even rented a Triumph Bonneville right after I turned 17 and had it up close to 90 with my family including mother and grandmother scared to death following (I know not that fast but I don't plan on driving 150, hitting a small pothole and ending my life anytime soon).

Now I don't know you or your son, but I know why I was able to convince my parents to let me ride. They absolutely trust me-something I've built up my whole life but when it comes to driving you could say I've got a little more experience than average. To get my driver's license I was required to have driven 50 hours in a year-I had over 200. Within 8 weeks of Chicago winter(look it up right now-it kinda sucks) I put over 1400 miles on my cbr-my commute to school is 2 miles round trip lol.

I know I've gotten a little off the point here-I guess I'm just making you double check your decision(Make sure your son is grateful for letting him ride-it will keep him mature and safe).

I'm also a little bigger so it takes me longer to get the cbr up to 65mph-and when I'm there I'm not looking to pass anyone-If this sounds like a possibility for your son then perhaps another route avoiding such high speed if you end up choosing the cbr would be better. If you choose the scooter it will certainly be fast enough, but looking back to the days when I drove a scooter that fast-I think I feel safer on the cbr at that speed. Shisoshin certainly understands the safety issues of scooters so look over his post a second time haha
 
#13 · (Edited)
I'm not a big scooter fan, but if he didn't have the 65 mph hwy ride I would go with a scooter for campus. On a lot of campuses scooters are regarded as bicycles, and can be parked almost anywhere - cycles can not. If he lived close to campus and needed to go a couple of miles to class, then a scooter would be OK.

That's a big scooter (450 pounds!), but at hwy speeds I don't care for the small wheels and less stability of a scooter.

I have a now 18 y/o son that rides a Ninja 250. He has been riding on the dirt since he was 4 y/o, but I insisted he have 1 full year of road driving on 4 wheels before riding a cycle on the street. He wasn't happy about it. Operating the cycle is one thing (he knows how to do that very well), but learning the "rules of the road" is something completely different. There's no room for error, or time to learn, on 2 wheels like there is on 4.

Buy a cheap beater car and let him get some miles under his belt before hitting the road on a cycle or scooter. I agree with MotoMike that learning to operate a cycle off-road is the best way to start.
 
#14 ·
Thanks everyone. I appreciate your experiences and input.
And I should have posted up more info, but I thought to keep the topic simple, yet informative enough for others to reply to.

OK, the rider's got 13 yrs dirt bike riding experience. He now rides a 250cc 2-stroke MX dirt bike for fun. So the clutching and braking and turning skills, he knows how to do quite well, but
YES, riding in traffic and obeying traffic rules are all new to him, thus, he's taking a car driving school and m/c riding school currently..... his MSF course starts in 2 weeks:D

After he gets his class M license, he will then be able to put more riding time w/ dad on the m/c's , and they'll be paired up w/ Sena 20s comms so he'll get real time instructions from dad while riding in downtown, hwy, rural areas before he's let go come Sept. to ride to/fr school on his own.

Re: insurance, he'll be on dad's m/c policy, so he is covered to ride any of the bikes in the garage, and it'll only cost dad an additional $90/yr.:)

I'm starting to see what many here is saying about the CBR being a better bike for him instead of the 400 scooter. I thought that b/c the scooter has so much more utility to carry and store stuff (vs a m/c) for daily commuting purposes, it would be better served for his needs. But just b/c I see this practicality doesn't mean it's a young rider's priority.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Yeah, I'd say you left some important key info out of your opening post.

Forget the scooter dad, he already knows how to ride a real motorcycle, so the answer to your question is pretty much a no-brainer... he should ride the CBR250R.

Just my opinion, but I think a lot of scooter riders are on those things because they weren't able to get the hang of clutching & shifting. I think it's easy for many of us to take clutching & shifting for granted, but for a lot of otherwise 'would be' motorcycle riders they just can't get the hand-foot coordination down.

As for carrying his books & laptop, nearly every young motorcycle rider I see is wearing a daypack (for some reason most of those packs look empty to me :confused:).

I am curious though, what sort of dirt bike did your son start riding at 3 years old? I ask because my daughter, who will be 2 years old in a few short months and has been riding with me on our Honda CT70 Mini Trail since she was 6 months old, is at least 3 years away from learning to ride the CFR50F.
 
#20 ·
pro - seems you have your relationships and situation
under good management and control..
your boy has an excellent start..

the concern tho is, other people, other drivers..
without a long list from texting drunks to
genuine psychopaths out there on the roads,
it is fundamentally important to understand
that drivers, even someones nice mom,
can not be trusted, behind the wheel...

cannot be expected to do what is rational
or logical or safe.. and can be expected
to do wrong and bad things..

including driving into motorcycles and scoots..
that drivers worldwide state; 'but i didnt see him'
when 'he' was there to be seen, is an example of
one reality of riding on roads and in traffic...

seems its only this aspect of it
your son now needs to grasp..

imo but at your discretion etc,
motorcycle crash videos [youtube]
can be an eye-opener, and substitue
or virtual experience of potential
dangers from other drivers...

good luck tho, there are many who would
have loved to have the start your son has..
 
#26 · (Edited)
I'm guessing you recall the same knucklehead comment as the one I'm thinking of from a couple years ago, spouting off with something like "... this bike shouldn't be called a 'CBR', because it's really a glorified scooter..."

I'm not sure, but it might have been DudeMan who shared those words of wisdom with us. :rolleyes:
 
#27 ·
@Pro, it is commendable that you have given your son a solid foundation for the motorcycle world. I wish I had even a fraction of what you were able to give your son. Even better is father, son bonding time in a shared love of motorcycling :)
 
#28 ·
Sorry, I don't think either is a good idea for a 16 year old, not in the capacity that you are talking about.
Young drivers have enough challenges driving a car, let alone a motorcycle.
Ride the bus, walk or ride a bicycle would be the best.
Small used car for the price of either of these bikes would be better.
 
#29 ·
While I definitely agree that some previous road experience is best, none of us know your son as best as you. Was I read for a motorcycle when I got my learners permit for a car at 16? Hell no! But after putting tens of thousands of miles on the road driving with my mom and having my own car for two years, I learned quite a bit of knowledge and precautions to take with other drivers. Maturity also is a huge factor, in my opinion, on whether he's ready for the huge responsibility of being on two wheels. I'm sure for you to even consider letting him ride, he displays much more maturity than his peers.

If he hasn't already, some car driving time is definitely going to help. People drive crazy here and I'm sure in most places. The distracted driving is what really drives me crazy. I notice it so much more when on the bike and I get away from those on their phones or any other distractions ASAP.
 
#30 ·
well my first motorcycle was a honda 250 cb72 twin, at 16..

rode it as daily transport and lifestyle.. all over the place..
including sydney to melbourne [1000km] and back..
never dropped it, never had a prang..

at 16 my reflexes etc were excellent..
my father was a motorcyclist, who taught me
many things including that motorcycles
should be enjoyed, and respected..

anyway,, its not number of rotations of the planet
that qualifiy a person to ride a motorcycle [safely]
rather the attitude they start out with..

[that big heavy long wheelbase scooter
could no doubt do it, but i cant imagine
serious riding incl distances on any
scoot compared to a motorcycle]
 
#31 ·
well my first motorcycle was a honda 250 cb72 twin, at 16..

rode it as daily transport and lifestyle.. all over the place..
including sydney to melbourne [1000km] and back..
never dropped it, never had a prang..
I don't want to be an a.. here but when you were 16 there was a lot less traffic and a lot less teenagers in muscle cars. So I'm not sure it's good to compare that with today.
 
#32 ·
first hand experience

when my daughter started to ride, I had her ride a Ruckus for a year, then she got a Kawasaki Super Sherpa 250. she thought she was a great rider, but admitted right away "I'm really glad I rode the scooter for so long before I started using a clutch in traffic." motorcycles (and scooters) require so much more of a person than a car does, and learning to ride a PTW (powered two wheeler) is much easier without the shifting equation.

even though the Burgman has more power, I'd recommend it to a new rider over the CBR250R. a smaller scooter wouldn't be bad, either. I have a 125cc scooter than can cruise at 55mph all day. all kids are different, but I think it really helped her, and she is alert, confident, and very coordinated. I, my wife and daughter all drive manual transmissions in our cars and trucks, and wouldn't have it any other way now.

that said, if you're starting on a real motorcycle, this is a great way to start!
 
#36 ·
schroeder - im not 'comparing it to today'..
the ops point was, a 16yr's old riding ability..

you may rest assured that however bad european roads
and drivers may have been 50yrs ago, caseystonerland
had our fair share of poor roads and young prawns
screaming around in hotted up cars..
 
#37 ·
I ride both a scooter and a motorcycle to work 37 miles each way for the last four years, rain or shine whenever there is no ice on the roads. 19,000 miles on the CBR250R and 17,000 miles on the PCX150 (and 3,000 on a NInja650 and 5,000 on a 2009 Ninja250). If the PCX were a 200 with a 75 mph top speed it would be the perfect commuter. The bodywork and 14 inch wheels work perfect on the highway but it is unfortunately skimming the rev limiter at 67 mph. Riding in stop and go traffic is so much more pleasant with the cvt trans. The 300 pound weight is all down low so it is so easy to yank in and out of awkward parking spots and the low cg also makes it very tame from low sides or high sides if the rear breaks loose over wet tape lines. The PCX150 will get close to 100 mpgUS in the city but it is just not quite fast enough to keep up with 70 mph traffic. I don't own a 400 scooter but am negotiating to buy a Majesty400 to replace the Ninja650 for my son to commute on since even though they are the same weight at 470 pounds, the Ninja is a handful to yank out of parking spots with it's high center of gravity.
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The CBR250 is also really nice for commuting. the bodywork works well in bad weather on the highway where the only thing that gets really wet are your feet and you can get a taller windshield. Fuel injection was the game changer in this segment. It starts right up and runs perfect every time. It is light enough to yank around and yet fast enough to run 70 mph with the cars. Either vehicle will need the addition of the largest locking trunk so he doesn't have to lug around helmet, gloves, and jacket between classes. I have always gotten by with a large duffle bag bungied to a plank that is hooked onto the rear seat and excellent grab handles but he will need something that locks.
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#38 ·
I would say to go with the CBR. It sounds like your son has plenty of experience riding already, and will probably have a more enjoyable ride on a motorcycle vs. a scoot. I commute on mine daily with just a waterproof backpack, and it works great for me. It might not be a deciding factor for you, but I think enjoying the ride is a big deal, and for someone with that kind of off road experience, a scoot might seem like a step back... Just my $.02
 
#40 ·
Only you know your son. And obviously he already has plenty of experience to handle either. So the real question is,... what do YOU want your son to ride? 16 year old? Motorcycle is much cooler. Scooter is chosen only if your son is confident enough in himself not to care what others say about his "ride." It's just the plain truth ...teen peer pressure . If he realizes he just wants good transportation that has a bit more utility plus wants to learn the dangers of road riding without having to worry too much about operation of vehicle. Obviously the scooter. It's all really you.
 
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