Why This 250cc Engine Have Long Lifecycle ? - Honda CBR250R Forum : Honda CBR 250 Forums
User Tag List

 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 11-10-2017, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 20
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Why This 250cc Engine Have Long Lifecycle ?

So Honda right now have CB300R, CRF250L, Rebel 250, CBR250R/CBR300R. All these bike use similar engine.

It makes me wonder. What makes this engine special that Honda decided to use these engine on their many bikes ?

Reliability ? Proven ? Simple maintenance ? Does this mean this engine will have long lifecycle ?

Thoughts ?
zelta32 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 11-10-2017, 03:49 PM
Moderator
 
jsonder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: southern Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,993
Thanks: 327
Thanked 408 Times in 317 Posts
Garage
Honda's small motorcycles have a reputation for long engine life provided that the maintenance schedule is followed. Adjusting valves and changing oil and filter are important. This engine uses shims for tappet adjustment so the intervals are longer but the checks need to be done and shims changed as needed for generous clearance.

John: '09CRF230L (Li'l Red Piglet), '89NX250 (sold)
Propelled by Penguin Power
Nekkid motorcycles feel faster
1st bike: a gently used 1958 Matchless 250 thumper
jsonder is offline  
post #3 of 18 Old 11-11-2017, 06:19 AM
Senior Member
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern England
Posts: 388
Thanks: 16
Thanked 52 Times in 42 Posts
Garage
Long lifecycle is the way the motorcycle market is now.
In years gone by, constant development of new technology to gain more power was essential to drive sales in all sizes of bikes. Now that is reserved for the big flagship models and economy (both in the engines themselves and in their manufacture) is more of a priority for smaller models.
Bike manufacturers are now turning more to different styling variations on a common basic platform to generate sales. Yamaha's FZ/MT series and Triumph's twins are good examples of this.
Also, the European market has a maximum power to weight ratio for some categories of riding licence which means that a relatively simple motor is all that is needed.
Keith is offline  
 
post #4 of 18 Old 11-11-2017, 08:26 AM
Super Moderator
 
MotoMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: 9000 ft. ASL in Southwest Colorado, USA
Posts: 6,903
Thanks: 1,433
Thanked 3,643 Times in 1,938 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zelta32 View Post
So Honda right now have CB300R, CRF250L, Rebel 250, CBR250R/CBR300R. All these bike use similar engine.
The Rebel 250 engine is not the same engine as used in these other bikes. It's a much older design. The new Rebel 300 shares the same motor as used in the CBR300R & CB300F.

Quote:
... It makes me wonder. What makes this engine special that Honda decided to use these engine on their many bikes?

Reliability ? Proven ? Simple maintenance ? Does this mean this engine will have long lifecycle ?

Thoughts ?
From Honda's standpoint, it makes financial sense to use the 250/286 motor in a number of different models. Increased production volume is the way to recover initial R&D and tooling costs. Which in turn allows Honda to keep the retail price point of these bikes low.

Former Factory Test Rider/Technician
MotoMike is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 11-11-2017, 09:28 AM
Senior Member
 
Schroeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,809
Thanks: 206
Thanked 356 Times in 293 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Also, the European market has a maximum power to weight ratio for some categories of riding licence which means that a relatively simple motor is all that is needed.
While that is so the max HP for those licenses would be 48, so the 26hp 250cc and the 31hp 286cc don't cut it. That's what the 500 series was designed for. That's also the reason why you rarely see the 250/300 models in Germany. They just don't fit into any license category and people often go for bigger = better.

My computer is fighting Aids and Cancer in it's idle time, and yours?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Schroeder is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 11-11-2017, 12:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern England
Posts: 388
Thanks: 16
Thanked 52 Times in 42 Posts
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder View Post
While that is so the max HP for those licenses would be 48, so the 26hp 250cc and the 31hp 286cc don't cut it. That's what the 500 series was designed for. That's also the reason why you rarely see the 250/300 models in Germany. They just don't fit into any license category and people often go for bigger = better.
True. I haven't done the sums but the CBR250/300 would have to be a lot lighter than they are to fall foul of the power to weight restriction.

Regarding whether or not the 250 motor is 'special', I'd say 'not special'. If Honda can get 160HP or more out of a CBR1000 which is 4 250cc cylinders they should be able to get 40 out of a single 250 and make a bike that would perform as well or better than the 4 cylinder 250s from the 80s and 90s. They'd only do that if they thought they could attract enough buyers to justify the much higher price they would have to charge.
Keith is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 11-11-2017, 07:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: WI
Posts: 1,705
Thanks: 244
Thanked 258 Times in 197 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoMike View Post
From Honda's standpoint, it makes financial sense to use the 250/286 motor in a number of different models. Increased production volume is the way to recover initial R&D and tooling costs. Which in turn allows Honda to keep the retail price point of these bikes low.
^ This.

Honda has a good product, but so do most of the major players at this point. Honda has made major engine mistakes in the past, like oiling/cam problems on the early Interceptor 500s. Some CBR250Rs have had unusual engine problems as well.

At this point, especially with their smaller/less expensive engines, they want to get the best bang for their engineering and production buck.
jkv357 is online now  
post #8 of 18 Old 11-12-2017, 05:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Schroeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,809
Thanks: 206
Thanked 356 Times in 293 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
True. I haven't done the sums but the CBR250/300 would have to be a lot lighter than they are to fall foul of the power to weight restriction.
Wouldn't they need to be above the 48HP restriction for the whole power to weight thing to take effect. IIRC that only applies to bikes that are more powerful but get restricted to 48HP.

Quote:
If Honda can get 160HP or more out of a CBR1000 which is 4 250cc cylinders they should be able to get 40 out of a single 250 and make a bike that would perform as well or better than the 4 cylinder 250s from the 80s and 90s
I believe there are some Asian countries that still have a 27 HP license. Our CBR's 26.4 HP would make sense for that and explain why the power is so low.

My computer is fighting Aids and Cancer in it's idle time, and yours?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Schroeder is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 11-12-2017, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 20
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
True. I haven't done the sums but the CBR250/300 would have to be a lot lighter than they are to fall foul of the power to weight restriction.

Regarding whether or not the 250 motor is 'special', I'd say 'not special'. If Honda can get 160HP or more out of a CBR1000 which is 4 250cc cylinders they should be able to get 40 out of a single 250 and make a bike that would perform as well or better than the 4 cylinder 250s from the 80s and 90s. They'd only do that if they thought they could attract enough buyers to justify the much higher price they would have to charge.
Well, Honda made CBR250RR. As far as i know, this bike right now only sold on Indonesia and Japan. Now news whether this bike will be sold in other countries. And in Japan, this bike is more expensive than CBR400R.

I think if Honda gonna sell it on other countries, they must stroke up the engine to 350cc or something. To compete with Ninja 400, R3, RC390, etc. Eventhough this bike gonna compete with their CBR5000R too.
zelta32 is offline  
post #10 of 18 Old 11-13-2017, 05:15 AM
Senior Member
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern England
Posts: 388
Thanks: 16
Thanked 52 Times in 42 Posts
Garage
About ten years ago, when motocross switched from using 250 two strokes to 450 four stroke motors I was hoping that some of that technology would be used to create a lightweight, road going single with 40-50bhp. so far only KTM have shown any inclination to go down that route.
dilop likes this.

Last edited by Keith; 11-13-2017 at 11:31 AM. Reason: Typo
Keith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda CBR250R Forum : Honda CBR 250 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome