Do any MSF not charge full price for a retake? - Page 2 - Honda CBR250R Forum : Honda CBR 250 Forums
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post #11 of 17 Old 09-13-2016, 01:31 PM
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After reading your posts here, it sounds like you've got yourself pretty well convinced that there is a good chance you won't pass the MSF course.

Consider doing some self-study before you take the course, so that you'll have a better understanding of the basic concepts of motorcycle riding. A good book to read is Proficient Motorcycling by David L. Hough.

Also, there is some good info to be had right here in this forum: https://www.cbr250.net/forum/proficie...ps-techniques/

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post #12 of 17 Old 09-13-2016, 01:51 PM
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I always like to point to this video:


It is by no means a replacement for the class but it can give you already some insight ahead of it. There is one thing though you should not do and that is using the front brake only. You get the best stopping power with both brakes applied.

What I don't understand about the MSF concept is are they actually there to teach you or just to test you? Because I was under the impression that they were supposed to teach. If that is so how can they send people home who crash? What's the point? Shouldn't they rather show the person how it's done instead?

A lot of people are complaining about the costs of the German license system (I paid 1.400 for mine IIRC) but at least you are a somewhat competent rider after 14-15 hours of 1 on 1 training on the roads with an instructor and not a threat to yourself and others (unless you are one of those indestructible youths who have to go WOT all the time on their super sports...that usually ends in disaster...training or not...) .

My computer is fighting Aids and Cancer in it's idle time, and yours?
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post #13 of 17 Old 09-13-2016, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Oh I agree with you and think it is silly they send people home that are having a hard time but the variable for this decision is all over the place. Some of the FAQs say if you are having a hard time keeping up they can send you home. Some places send you home the second you drop the bike others do not. In other words, if you are slowing the class down and need too much attention good bye. I have read stories of people being sent home for taking too long to learn the clutch, not a problem for me, but I really don't think that is right. You have a person who paid to learn something and is not a danger to anyone stalling out in the parking lot on a 250 so don't be greedy and send them home. Oh and you say show you how it is done? NONE of the instructors are on bikes and they pretty much describe how to do it. This may vary from school to school so I can't say it is like that everywhere.

Also you have to think it is a 10 hour class split between 8-10 people. How much time are you really getting out of that hours..

I honestly rather pay for per hour for private instructions and get quality instead of something split between so many people. Sadly they do not really offer that and the only way to get that is to buy out the entire class which to me is not a fair price. Why, well there is no reason you should have to buy out 6 hours of classroom time. That is something fine you can just take in a class at a group rate or study up and taken a written test without it.

So yeah your quality of instruction over there is much higher than ours. I have done certs like these before in groups and they are really rushed and you don't get the best instructions. You know what they do for sailing certs at laser schools is everyone sails out in their own boat and they sit in a boat with a loud speaker and tell you do certain things. You don't get that 1 on 1 telling you what you are doing wrong and how you can improve. They pretty much just making sure you are able to not hit other boats and can dock. That is about it.

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post #14 of 17 Old 09-13-2016, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphonse5 View Post
How can you expect anyone to ready for street with 8 hours of training with most of that sitting idle from my understanding.
Yeah, I agree. However, in my son's class half the people were on bigger bikes and had never completed their actual motorcycle license test sequence. Some were not riding legally any longer. I think you are supposed to have everything wrapped up within 12 months of the permit being issued.

(The MSF course is not mandatory in my state. If you successfully complete the course, a motorcycle licensed is then issued within a week or so. It's pretty easy.)
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post #15 of 17 Old 09-13-2016, 06:12 PM
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[long response for novice, still only scratching
the surface of rider trainging/attitude etc]

'ive heard that' and 'people say' etc, is not
a sound basis for decisionmaking..
thinking and talking about, failing, regardless
of any context its wrapped in, is still
entertaining the idea of failing, to your brain..

motivating or even hypnotising people to believe
they can or will do this or that activity is real,
in the sense of positive potential results..
this is before you swing a leg over a motorcycle..

so perhaps wipe these ideas of failing etc
from your mind and attention at this point
in your potential motorcycling career..
later,, after, successfully completing this
of any training or practice or testing
for real motorcycle riding, then perhaps,
let yourself go and into the fairness or
otherwise of course design etc..

for me there were no riding courses..
[sydney aust 50yrs ago] you did a short test
on road rules etc, got a learners permit,
then went out and taught yourself
how to manage and ride your motorcycle..
then it was once around the police station carpark
and bobs your uncle.. pay your pound and off you go..

at a govt licensing retesting i went thru with my son
it was basically to weed out people who should not be
on a motorcycle in traffic or public roads..
if you cant hold the bike up on level ground
in basic stop starting, or ride off a simply oval course
in second gear five times [as one lady did for no reason]
or comprehend basic use of horn, sidestand, clutch etc,
then you are already not qualified to manage a motorcycle..

riding a motorcycle, to state the glaringly obvious,
is a whole of body and mind physical and mental skill,
which must begin with at least basic competence..
this is not about fairness etc, but about putting people
on the public roads on motorcycles..

there is a certain basic level of attention and attitude
being tested in these basic courses, aside from sidestands etc,
part of which would include requirements for retesting
including paying again, which from your posts here
already has your attention,, which would tend to
discourage those who see these things as some sort of
social event, to practice being who/whatever they think
they are [such as attention seekers and so on]..

ok, to your reality,, forget about failing..
it hasnt happened so let it go..

go into this opportunity,, with an open mind
and positive even happy attitude and intention..

think of the instructors as people who can help you,
in what must be a very trying occupation..
help them and help yourself by your attitude
including paying full attention to everything
[thats, everything] you experience or are shown
in your riding intro course[s], or any other
instruction you get from other riders
or your own specific practicing..

before going out onto the roads, you can and should
imo practice just moving the motorcycle around
from the side and in the saddle, engine off..
forward and back, round and round etc..
as if parking it in limited space or suchlike..

even mounting throwing one leg over seat
is a skill in itself, similar to a karate round kick
or other physical skill.. think of and do it that way..
repeating over and over.. repetition being the key..

then when competent at those basic skills,
start moving forward, clutch in, stop,, repeat..
over and over.. until your hands get tired..
[part of hand conditioning for riding]

dont just do these things once or twice,
but give it half an hour, at least,
for each session even on one basic
riding skill practice..

you want to create or start building
reflex responses.. this is another key..
even a tame monkey can be taught
to sit on a moving motorcycle..
which is not, riding skill..

then when starting and stopping become
natural and easy, which is an inevitable
consequence of, repetition,, ride around
your block, over and over and over..
then turn around and ride around it
the other way.. many times..
no hurry.. take your time..
take it all in..

they ride to that quiet traffic free area
and repeat your up and down sequences,
then start around the area in a large square
with corners rounded off to an oval..

first and second gear for starters..
over and over.. then the other way..

after a while it will all become natural
[thru repetition, the more the better]
and your mind may then entertain
ideas about how your are shifting gears,
controlling clutch, braking, throttling, etc..

this will lead naturally to smaller circling,
which will lead to large figure 8's
then smaller figure 8's..

treat and see these skills as real skills,
not just for passing some basic test
but essential for real riding skills,
developing balance, coordination
and easy 'low flying' on your
motorcycle...

learn the questions of any test
off by heart.. they will be online..
know them like your friends name..

doing this, and these things, will
switch on various potential contacts
with your center of gravity and so on,
and will alert brain to the fact that
this is something serious, to be taken
seriously - but to be enjoyed -
and it all becomes easy, fun,
and a good part of living
this short life..
jsonder, MotoMike and don'tpanic like this.
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post #16 of 17 Old 09-13-2016, 07:32 PM
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^ Wise advise from shisoshin.

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post #17 of 17 Old 09-13-2016, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoMike View Post
^ Wise advise from shisoshin.
As always!


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