2 finger braking, blipping throttle

I always two finger brake. Whenever I use four digits, I find that I use more braking that I really need, plus there's the split second that you lose repositioning your hands. I too got penalized for using this technique at MSF, but it's really something that should be encouraged as an option, rather than a no-no. To them, two-finger braking seems to carry a stigma shared by left-foot brakers: there are advantages to left-foot braking and the criticisms against its use are usually unfounded or ridiculous. Not that I discourage four-finger braking (it's a solid technique that conveys the highest potential effort); just that two-finger braking is a good alternative.

There are two varieties of two-fingering that I've seen practiced; one is common use and the other I've only seen performance riders use: index-middle and ring-pinky. I use the former 90% of the time. The latter apparently gives you better throttle control and is good for firm braking systems that require a more delicate touch.

I also didnt like some of the things taught in the MSF class. For example they said to pull in the clutch automatically when breaking. Because I already drove a stick shift and understood the concept, I always started breaking and then at the last minute pulled the clutch in. You break a lot faster this way. I think they only taught the other way because people would forget to pull in the clutch and the bike would kill off. The reason people dont understand this concept in the MSF class is because 90% of them drive automatic cars.

Yes use 2 fingers for planned breaking (non emergency) with throttle blipping and 4 fingers for unplanned breaking (emergency).

It makes since that racers would use middle and index, to keep pointer on throttle and because of the shape of the break handle, its probably easier to grab the break with those 2 fingers, although I never would have though of it.

Now I have to try that.

pete_falcone said:

I always two finger brake. Whenever I use four digits, I find that I use more braking that I really need, plus there's the split second that you lose repositioning your hands. I too got penalized for using this technique at MSF, but it's really something that should be encouraged as an option, rather than a no-no. To them, two-finger braking seems to carry a stigma shared by left-foot brakers: there are advantages to left-foot braking and the criticisms against its use are usually unfounded or ridiculous. Not that I discourage four-finger braking (it's a solid technique that conveys the highest potential effort); just that two-finger braking is a good alternative.

There are two varieties of two-fingering that I've seen practiced; one is common use and the other I've only seen performance riders use: index-middle and ring-pinky. I use the former 90% of the time. The latter apparently gives you better throttle control and is good for firm braking systems that require a more delicate touch.

Click to expand...

I took the BRC with MSF in September. I suspect you (was it you?) are right about their reasons for what they tell you to do on the range. In my group, I was the only one that had prior riding experience (it started resurfacing an hour into instruction). I knew and THEY knew I had some 'bad' habits. But, I went into it with an open mind and a closed mouth and did just fine. So did the rest of my group. Those coaches are very patient(at least mine were).

All that being said, very thing I have trouble with right now just happens to be making that 90 degree trafic corner smoothly on a full sized motorcycle. Usually I'm in the wrong gear, going to fast and/or understeering on the exit. Every Saturday morning, I'm down at the parking lot in the marina for about a half hour practice. I'll have to try the technique.

try taking index finger away from chin-up bar
when suspended with palm forward grip
[as in riding], its the easiest finger to release..

i have the 'bad' habit of resting index or two
fingers on [esp] clutch lever, esp in traffic etc..

in changing gears generally its a quick short
movement of the lever, which can be done
with index/middle fingers, also general braking
[i practice not, using brakes, unless necessary]
is ok with index/middle fingers..

with 'sighter' fingers on levers theres no time gap
between brains signal to pull and the pull itself..
[ie, moving fingers to lever then pulling = 2 moves
or 3 moves if you count returning to grip bar]
eg, when washing off speed/changing down gears,
try taking fingers out and back to grip, each time,,
its like a tongue-twister for your fingers/hand..

fast down shifting is similar to the action of
quickly scratching your head etc with 4 fingers
so theres on return to grip phase there..

for very light braking [lights etc] its rear brake..
for 'general' braking two fingers are enough..
for strong braking theyre still enough but
full finger spread does allow better feel
and more progressive application of power..

in 'emergency' braking fingers will get there
quickly enough, yet having sighters there
cant hurt and must be slightly faster..
in the relatively few genuine emergency
brakings i remember whole hand
'did it by itself'..

also in traffic i use rear brake to warn
cagers behind of lights, stopped cars etc
or that i might slow down, without
actually slowing down..
a communications device..

as for throttle movements, they dont need
to be always started with pulling fingers
and can be done by pushing the palm heel
down/around the throttle..
usually this is a combined action, balancing
push with pull, thus isolating bars from
uneven arm movements etc, but
it can still be used when resting
fingers on the brake lever..

including smooth transitional
brake to throttle sequences
such as brake in throttle out
of corners/bends etc..
ie, using palm heel as initiator
makes a smooth transition from
finger braking to throttle on..

used to blip throttle on my 750's
down shifting but cbr250r seems
to slip down gears so easily
im not blipping now..

The Word from the Trenches

I'm sure I'm not the only MSF Rider Coach on this forum, but I think I'm the first to respond to this thread. Anyway, hear ye, hear ye:

From the top:

Many sound riding techniques are not addressed in the BRC simply because they're a little too advanced. The Basic Rider Course is designed for people who MIGHT have seen a motorcycle once, from a distance. We start at square one. Experienced riders will find the first few hours (or more) elementary. It's another reason we offer the ERC -- Experienced Rider Course -- for seasoned veterans.

We teach "All four fingers on the levers" because our training bikes' levers frequently will come back very close to the bar when fully squeezed -- and 3/4-inch is pretty close. During the Quick Stop (maximum braking) this WILL pinch a finger left in there, causing pain and preventing full braking. And it's not a bad habit for real bikes, although possibly unnecessary. I always tell my classes that modern sportbikes (among others) don't need all four fingers on the brake, but our training bikes (Eliminator 125, anyone?) are not modern sportbikes.



My personal opinion is that leaving any fingers around the throttle while braking (while not a terrible idea) is an unnecessary crutch. You can easily blip the throttle to match the revs for a downshift (another good-but-advanced technique we don't teach) using all four fingers on the lever while rolling off with the thumb. If you can coordinate yourself to simultaneously blip the throttle, downshift and apply both brakes for a corner, more power to you. I can, but I don't think it's something to teach a brand-new rider.

Another perfectly viable habit we deliberately DON'T teach noobs: clutchless upshifts. Bad habit? Not if done correctly.` Suitable for every new rider coming through the class? Probably not.

As for pulling in the clutch for stopping, I can't speak for your instructor, but for regular braking, I always emphasize that you should pull the clutch in just before the bike stalls (just like a stick-shift car!). For Quick Stops, on the other hand, you pull in the clutch from the get-go because you're rapping through a series of downshifts to get to first by the end.

Remember, the BRC is designed for teaching fundamental riding skills to amateurs. Don't get offended if you find the course too simplistic. If you're feeling cocky, sign up for the ERC. If you're still feeling cocky after that, look up your local Track Day provider.

Yours,
BT

Yeah, I figured certain things wouldn't be taught because of the nature of the class. Kind of like how we don't talk about certain concepts here on certain threads because of the nature of this forum. Then again, there are so many variations in teaching styles that one MSF session can be very different from another one, even though they all offer the same curriculum. There are a lot of places that hold MSF courses here in Los Angeles, so I get to observe different styles during my breaks.

In the class taught at a local community college, the coaches run a tight ship and don't have much tolerance for deviation. Three drops and you're out. You'll get a few pointers for why you dropped it, but if you can't make sense of it, then tough luck. Late getting back to the briefing after a break? Go to the registrar and reschedule.

At another class, taught at the old Forum, there was a gal who clearly should have been kicked out after the first hour. The coach spent the breaks doing one-on-ones with her and helping her get back on the bike after she drops it. The lady survived both days and passed the final by the skin of her teeth.