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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have recently dug out my bike. It has been sitting for 7 years and I’m having trouble getting it started. I unfortunately I left fuel in it for the entire duration. However, it had zero problems and ran just fine when I parked it. I have cleaned it up, cleaned the fuel injector, fuel pump, gas tank, fuel lines, new filter, pump gets power, spark plug was in decent shape but I cleaned that up as well. I haven’t replaced the battery but have been jumping it off a car battery. It will crank and run on ether but will not continue running. I’m no mechanic, just looking for the next step to take anything to look for. I currently do not have a way to check pressure, I will soon
 

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I have recently dug out my bike. It has been sitting for 7 years and I’m having trouble getting it started. I unfortunately I left fuel in it for the entire duration. However, it had zero problems and ran just fine when I parked it. I have cleaned it up, cleaned the fuel injector, fuel pump, gas tank, fuel lines, new filter, pump gets power, spark plug was in decent shape but I cleaned that up as well. I haven’t replaced the battery but have been jumping it off a car battery. It will crank and run on ether but will not continue running. I’m no mechanic, just looking for the next step to take anything to look for. I currently do not have a way to check pressure, I will soon
Hey. When you cleaned the plug, could it be that you applied a force that changed its gap?
Under what conditions was the motorcycle stored?
Rust
may cause disconnection in the connectors...and
Maybe rust caused the valves to catch? And if the rotation of the crankshaft might have caused further damage to the valves? Maybe it's worth trying to lift the valve cover and see that there is no rust in this area and that the mechanism works smoothly?
There were signs of rust in the fuel tank and fuel pump?

Rodents, including mice, like to eat electrical wires. The wire harness looking good?

In a standard spark test, when the plug is out, and attached to the frame (keep away from the engine head and fuel), is there a proper spark?

Start with the simple checks
as a spark test, and move on from there:):coffee:
 

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Unfortunately, 7-yrs is long time and petrol turns to plastic after it dries. No way to dissolve it after this age. Removal requires mechanical methods. On carbs, this requires complete disassembly and replacing jets with new ones. Or using drill-bit to remove petrol deposits from jets. Spray carb cleaners no longer work due to removal of chlorinated compounds.

You've done great work with troubleshooting!!
It will crank and run on ether
This confirms ignition system is working!
pump gets power,
This confirms safety-interloc switches and wiring are working as intended! :)

Next tests involves following:

1. PUMP: verify pump flows petrol - disconnect from fuel-hose from injector and aim into measuring cup. Crank engine for 10-sec. How much petrol did you collect in cup?

2. verify fuel-injector has +12v power - we can skip this step and assume injector has power because you have spark to run on ether. ECU, injector AND ign-coil gets power on same wire coming from start/stop switch.

3. ECU: verify fuel-injector is getting firing signal from ECU - want to check signal on fuel injector connector. Back-probe injector-connector and connect to solenoid-light. It has duration-extending circuitry to keep light on long enough for humans to see. Amazon-SolenoidLight

Or you can verify ECU sends injector-grounding pulses with oscilloscope


4. INJECTOR: verify injector is actually squirting petrol - remove injector with fuel-hose and electrical connector attached and aim into measuring cup. Crank engine for 10-sec. How much petrol did you collect?


Basically follow path of petrol from tank to combustion-chamber. Where it stops flowing shows area needing closer inspection. I suspect #1 as Honda used substandard pump on this bike. It fails even under regular use with normal maintenace. Tamir found replacement pump for good price!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Surprisingly I found no rush or varnish past the tank and pump. A college of mine mentioned to check the compression, that the motor may have seized. The injector still looked brand new. Will a rebuild kit for the fuel pump solve a fuel pump issue if that is in fact the problem. When cleaning the spark plug I soaked in starting fluid, brushed it with a wire brush and lightly sanded the tip and spark connection
 

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Yup, you did great job on ignition system and cleaning plug. As indicated by engine running on ether. Confirmation that entire ignition-system is OK, good job!! :)

Certainly not seized engine as starter was able to turn engine over. Not likely compression issue since engine ran on ether just fine. This confirms your engine is NOT seized and that compression is Ok. You can do compression-test if you want, but won't tell us anything don't already know.

It's surely 100% problem with petrol getting from pump through injector. Only 3 items to test and you've found problem! Don't get distracted by non-logical alternatives (Occam's Razor).

As secondary confirmation that it's lack-of-petrol issue, use little squirt-bottle and spray about 1-2cc petrol into air-box. Wait 30s and start engine. Continue with about 1-2cc very 15s and engine should run just fine as long as you continue to supply petrol externally. Amazon - squirt bottle

Here's video on how to disconnect fuel-hose from injector for 1st test:
 

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A college of mine mentioned to check the compression
Yes, but even before that I was supposed to try to turn the engine manually (through the opening in the left engine cover), and I just claimed that maybe the use of the electric starter caused further damage? Everything maybe. But need to check carefully. So I suggested you to lift the valves cover and see what happens there.
A college of mine mentioned ..., that the motor may have seized.
Yes. I also suggested you to taking such an option into account, at least for a precautionary step.
I understand the piston probably not seized, but it do not know at the moment what about the valves?
Will a rebuild kit for the fuel pump solve a fuel pump issue if that is in fact the problem.
Yes. If you want to check the existing pump it is not enough to check the flow(Like Danno suggested), and you should also check the pressure(43psi).
When cleaning the spark plug I ... lightly sanded the tip and spark connection
Oh no
Check that the gap is correct, check really gently so that the measurement does not bend the metal leaf above. Check that there is a spark, and order a new plug.
 

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You can send injectors to this outfit Mr Injector . They provide before and after flow tests to show how clogged it was in beginning and how much it improved afterwards.

But again, test and measure to confirm it's clogged. Otherwise you're wasting time and money.
 

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test and measure
Yap

Tests that are considered very simple for DIY:
1. Measure that the electromechanical valve is working, preferably with a 9 volt battery so as not to overheat the coils (and burn the coils). The solenoid originally worked at 12 volts.
If the electric valve works good you will have control over the flow through it:
  • If there is a voltage = there is a flow.
And you will also hear the click, but it is the obvious.

For this test you need:
  • a spray of detergent,
  • and it helps a lot to buying the adapter plastic:
Link to aliexpress (7.65USD free shipping)
Automotive tire Line Font Bicycle part Plant
Font Screenshot Office supplies Auto part Web page

(There are many tutorial videos on YouTube how to improvise such a connection).

2. Check that the fuel jet comes out of all 12 holes, and check that all of them come out uniformly.
Camera accessory Automotive tire Rim Gas Audio equipment


3. Sometimes it is very convenient and cheap to check by replacing components, it is true that a new component may also be faulty, but statistically the technique of replacing is a very reliable technique in locating and overcoming problems, and here is an example of a component I replaced and currently works without any problems:
Link to aliexpress (12USD free shipping)
Light Product Font Line Screenshot
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Surprisingly I found no rush or varnish past the tank and pump. A college of mine mentioned to check the compression, that the motor may have seized. The injector still looked brand new. Will a rebuild kit for the fuel pump solve a fuel pump issue if that is in fact the problem. When cleaning the spark plug I soaked in starting fluid, brushed it with a wire brush and lightly sanded the tip and spark connection
Yes, but even before that I was supposed to try to turn the engine manually (through the opening in the left engine cover), and I just claimed that maybe the use of the electric starter caused further damage? Everything maybe. But need to check carefully. So I suggested you to lift the valves cover and see what happens there.

Yes. I also suggested you to taking such an option into account, at least for a precautionary step.
I understand the piston probably not seized, but it do not know at the moment what about the valves?

Yes. If you want to check the existing pump it is not enough to check the flow(Like Danno suggested), and you should also check the pressure(43psi).

Oh no
Check that the gap is correct, check really gently so that the measurement does not bend the metal leaf above. Check that there is a spark, and order a new plug.
Alright so now I have rebuilt the fuel pump, it’s working just fine, I have replaced the fuel injector. The thing still won’t fire
 

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Alright so now I have rebuilt the fuel pump, it’s working just fine, I have replaced the fuel iinjector. The thing still won’t fire
Those were most likely fine anyway. Replacing perfectly-working parts with brand-new perfectly working parts changes nothing because actual problem area has not been identified. But good to know they are certainly OK now. You've got extra injector for spare-parts box. Howver, they're not only things that can cause no-start problem.

I don't see any numbers. Without them, it's impossible to determine what's wrong remotely. Let's back up because we made some assumptions.


0. Measure battery voltage with everything off. Volts = ??

1. PUMP: verify pump flows petrol - disconnect from fuel-hose from injector and aim into measuring cup. Crank engine for 10-sec. How much petrol did you collect in cup?

1.5 FUEL-pressure: Tamir added good point. Pump may flow sufficient volume in free-flow test, but may not build sufficient preasure. Connect fuel-hose back to injector and measure pressure when cranking. Fuel pressure = ???

2. verify fuel-injector has +12v power - let's not skip this step and make assumptions. Disconnect injector connector, Key ON. Measure voltage at both connector terminals on injector harness connector. Volts.1 = ??? Volts.2 = ???

3. ECU: verify fuel-injector is getting firing signal from ECU - want to check signal on fuel injector connector. Back-probe injector-connector and connect to solenoid-light. It has duration-extending circuitry to keep light on long enough for humans to see. Amazon-SolenoidLight - Does solenoid light flash when cranking?

Or you can verify ECU sends injector-grounding pulses with oscilloscope




4. INJECTOR: verify injector is actually squirting petrol - remove injector with fuel-hose and electrical connector attached and aim into measuring cup. Crank engine for 10-sec. How much petrol did you collect?
 

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There is really nothing left except an ECU. Maybe it's worth trying contact cleaner on the electrical connections.
Things to consider:
1) Did you plug your injector in fully?
2) Are the fuel lines clear and connected?
3) Does it still run by fueling through airbox?
4) Does fuel filter have a check valve and installed backwards?
5) Are fuel lines and vent lines crossed?
 

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Oh, there's A LOT more left than ECU that can cause no-start problem.

If you don't want to test and measure, replace all of following as any one of them can cause no-start condition:

  • battery
  • engine harness, mice may have eaten important wire somewhere
  • ECU
  • BAS
  • crank sensor
  • MAP sensor
  • IACV
  • fuse box and all fuses
  • ECT sensor
  • IAT sensor
  • O2 sensor
  • TPS

All must be brand-new from authorised Honda dealer. Otherwise any part you get may be suspect and needs to be tested and verified good before using. Many parts from auto-parts stores are bad right out of box and needs to be tested before using. Fuel-pump recently failed on my wife's IS250 and I had to buy and return FOUR pumps from Napa before geting one that was good. Should've gone to dealer and bought OEM Denso pump in first place.
 

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4) Does fuel filter have a check valve and installed backwards?
5) Are fuel lines and vent lines crossed?
Yes, good thought(y)
All must be brand-new from authorised Honda dealer.
Not necessary.
A certified mechanic who is an expert on our model, he has all the parts second hand, not new parts, but the parts are in good condition, so it is easy for him to use the method of troubleshooting by replacing components. I also use this method, except that I do not hesitate to order used or non-original parts for this purpose, and also pay a long waiting time because of the issue of shipments. This is a great method, and I have proven results with it. I wish I had a spare parts warehouse available like a professional mechanic has, but in the compromises I live with, even ordering a fuel pump from AliExpress can help me a lot in diagnosing and troubleshooting.
Many parts from auto-parts stores are bad right out of box and needs to be tested before using.
Yes (y) BUT
As a mechanics fan who has time, I can get a full credit for defective parts, and except for the long delivery times (which most of the time I am indifferent to), I earn the cheap price, and get a very reasonable return. Knowing how to work with non-genuine spare parts is an "art". Today when all patents are expired, and the knowledge is the property of all manufacturers, it sometimes happens that non-genuine spare parts are both cheaper and better quality.
 

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Yes it can work. But pro-mechanics cannot spend too much time on each project or they will lose money. Or have to charge for extra time and lose customers. I've fired mechanics for doing both.

Our friend has wasted his time on fuel-pump and new injector. Will need massive store of spares to swap remaining parts on bike. He had done so well with diagnosis to this point:
I have cleaned it up, cleaned the fuel injector, fuel pump, gas tank, fuel lines, new filter, pump gets power, spark plug was in decent shape but I cleaned that up as well. I haven’t replaced the battery but have been jumping it off a car battery. It will crank and run on ether but will not continue running.
He's just 5-10 minutes away from fixing this as all he needed was some simple measurements. How much time does it take to disconnect a fuel-hose and aim it into container to test flow? He was already there when he removed pump for rebuilding an unneeded 2nd time. Also takes less than 2-minutes to measure if fuel-injector is getting power. Certainly faster than swapping entire harness to confirm injector will be getting power. And you don't have to bench-test injector to verify if it indeed flows petrol. Can do it on bike using bike's own fuel-supply and ECU.

At this point, he had wasted so much time doing unnecessary things, that if he had just spent that time working, he could've bought himself a running bike instead!
 

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Yes it can work. But pro-mechanics cannot spend too much time on each project or they will lose money. Or have to charge for extra time and lose customers. I've fired mechanics for doing both.

Our friend has wasted his time on fuel-pump and new injector. Will need massive store of spares to swap remaining parts on bike. He had done so well with diagnosis to this point:
He's just 5-10 minutes away from fixing this as all he needed was some simple measurements. How much time does it take to disconnect a fuel-hose and aim it into container to test flow? He was already there when he removed pump for rebuilding an unneeded 2nd time. Also takes less than 2-minutes to measure if fuel-injector is getting power. Certainly faster than swapping entire harness to confirm injector will be getting power. And you don't have to bench-test injector to verify if it indeed flows petrol. Can do it on bike using bike's own fuel-supply and ECU.

At this point, he had wasted so much time doing unnecessary things, that if he had just spent that time working, he could've bought himself a running bike instead!
OK But...:giggle:
What you write is sure to be true for you. An amateur, or someone who repairs his motorcycle by himself, we do not count time by a matter of money. And if I lack of time, because I need the motorcycle to be on the road and not in my personal "garage", in that case I will go into a qualified mechanic which is his profession. I have not yet solved my personal problem I have with a cold start, and your idea that my problem is in the ECM is in a clear slow DIY process, when I have an answer I will write an update. There are problems that even professional mechanics will have a hard time detecting. And another example, if no technical guide has the static test of the stator, and I have to figure it out on my own, then obviously it takes time, learning takes time. A time that is a time to enjoy my hobby.
 
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Alright, so where does this vaccum line go View attachment 45492
I'm guess you have a canister, but if you take a pic from a few more angles, and maybe better lighting, and also zoom out, maybe a short video, it's going to be easier to guide you to fix the connection. You currently have a disconnected hose. Is this a cause of a problem you have? Sorry I do not know what the answer is.
 
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