[SilverShadow]

Hi All,

I am taking delivery of the standard version CBR - though I was keen on the ABS model ( For the ABS model the delivery time is unspecified - the dealer was stating 11+ months ). What, I wanted to know is that are there any after market ABS kit that can be fitted of OR are is there a chance that it can be factory fitted later on ?

Can someone throw some light on it ?

Thanks

 

[Michael]

Hi All,

I am taking delivery of the standard version CBR - though I was keen on the ABS model ( For the ABS model the delivery time is unspecified - the dealer was stating 11+ months ). What, I wanted to know is that are there any after market ABS kit that can be fitted of OR are is there a chance that it can be factory fitted later on ?

Can someone throw some light on it ?

Thanks

In a word...... No.

It is probably possible, but would be impractical and expensive. You'd be better off selling the non ABS model and buying an ABS model if that is the way you want to go.

I suggest leaning to ride properly would be a better idea. You should be looking to anticipate and avoid trouble rather than hitting the anchors when you panic. Learn a few braking and handling skills too.

ABS on two wheels is of some, but limited benefit. Technology and gear cannot make up for shortcomings in judgment or ability as much as it can on four wheels.

ABS can be of help if you want to stop quickly in a straight line on a slippery road.

However, unlike in a car, it is of no benefit when manouvreing. Slam the brakes on too hard while swerving, and you will lose lateral traction and be off long before the ABS kicks in.

I'd have thought your dealer would be able to fill you in on the details.

 

[Rick]

Hi All,

I am taking delivery of the standard version CBR - though I was keen on the ABS model ( For the ABS model the delivery time is unspecified - the dealer was stating 11+ months ). What, I wanted to know is that are there any after market ABS kit that can be fitted of OR are is there a chance that it can be factory fitted later on ?

Can someone throw some light on it ?

Thanks

Despite what you read on ebay from unscrupulous sellers in China, no. Absolutely not

 

[jaldridge]

Not the opinion of many professionals

"ABS on two wheels is of some, but limited benefit."

This is NOT the opinion of many motorcycle professionals.

 

[Michael]

"ABS on two wheels is of some, but limited benefit."

This is NOT the opinion of many motorcycle professionals.

A really strong argument here..... not.

A convert makes a statement and fails to back it up. Seems like blind faith to me.

 

[Amontgomery]

In a word...... No.

It is probably possible, but would be impractical and expensive. You'd be better off selling the non ABS model and buying an ABS model if that is the way you want to go.

I suggest leaning to ride properly would be a better idea. You should be looking to anticipate and avoid trouble rather than hitting the anchors when you panic. Learn a few braking and handling skills too.

ABS on two wheels is of some, but limited benefit. Technology and gear cannot make up for shortcomings in judgment or ability as much as it can on four wheels.

ABS can be of help if you want to stop quickly in a straight line on a slippery road.

However, unlike in a car, it is of no benefit when manouvreing. Slam the brakes on too hard while swerving, and you will lose lateral traction and be off long before the ABS kicks in.

I'd have thought your dealer would be able to fill you in on the details.

This would be my opinion as well. After having ridden the Non-ABS model for about a month (200+ miles on some twisty, unpredictable backroads in the past 2 days), I can say that if you learn to ride properly, and practice the drills in the handbook that comes with your bike (the other book besides your users manual), you will be more than competent to handle most situations thrown your way (some situations can't be dealt with and will result in a crash regardless)

In low-traction situations, where the ABS would be a benefit, you should be driving slowly and watching your surroundings more than usual anyway. While the ABS would help in those situations, riding cautiously helps more.

 

[SilverShadow]

Hey, thanks for your feedback ! I think I am better off without the ABS - as it is I cant wait for 11 months for the ABS model & well I think that I can do with out it - been in some sticky situations & its only skill & luck that has helped me get out of them - though not always. I agree that skill & experience matter more than the best of technology available. Sometimes , I think that over - relying on technology might make people overconfident & take undue risk or people might not be that alert or reactive to situations. Well All the same thanks to you & all the people who took time to answer my post.

 

[somebody5788]

In a word...... No.

It is probably possible, but would be impractical and expensive. You'd be better off selling the non ABS model and buying an ABS model if that is the way you want to go.

I suggest leaning to ride properly would be a better idea. You should be looking to anticipate and avoid trouble rather than hitting the anchors when you panic. Learn a few braking and handling skills too.

ABS on two wheels is of some, but limited benefit. Technology and gear cannot make up for shortcomings in judgment or ability as much as it can on four wheels.

ABS can be of help if you want to stop quickly in a straight line on a slippery road.

However, unlike in a car, it is of no benefit when manouvreing. Slam the brakes on too hard while swerving, and you will lose lateral traction and be off long before the ABS kicks in.

I'd have thought your dealer would be able to fill you in on the details.

False, the ABS reacts much faster then that. Long before you even know that you hit the brakes too hard it kicks in and keeps you from skidding at all. Braking while turning on a bike is just a bad idea ABS or not.

 

[Michael]

False, the ABS reacts much faster then that. Long before you even know that you hit the brakes too hard it kicks in and keeps you from skidding at all. Braking while turning on a bike is just a bad idea ABS or not.

False, there is nothing wrong with braking lightly while turning, or at least going into a turn; trail braking I gather they call it as I recall. (I am not up on the semantics; I just do stuff that works). If you brake heavily you will be off the bike before the wheel locks up (non ABS model) or ABS kicks in (ABS model).

The tyres will lose lateral traction (which ABS has no effect on) before it loses forward traction (which is what ABS senses and does control).

If you want a more technical explanation, go to Premium Luke's somewhat difficult to fathom "Turning Circle" post.

 

[Kurlon]

Michael do you have direct experience with the ABS system in question, or any other recent motorcycle ABS system?

I ask as it sounds like you're basing your argument on a system that sounds more like the very simplistic ABS in the old 2000 Subaru I used to own than anything I've had an opportunity to sample on a bike in the past few years.

Most of my experience is with Ducati's ST, and no question that system reacts FAR quicker than I can. It's quite elegant, if the traction is there you can put the bike into a proper stoppie, otherwise it seamlessly keeps the wheel from stopping. The newer systems such as the combined traction control and ABS available on the MTS1200 are lean angle aware as well.

I've saved myself from lowsiding when trailbraking by modulating my brake input which means ABS can help there as well.

When all the riders and racers I respect are unanimously advising FOR ABS on bikes, it tells me the current kit is pretty **** good.

 

[somebody5788]

False, there is nothing wrong with braking lightly while turning, or at least going into a turn; trail braking I gather they call it as I recall. (I am not up on the semantics; I just do stuff that works). If you brake heavily you will be off the bike before the wheel locks up (non ABS model) or ABS kicks in (ABS model).

The tyres will lose lateral traction (which ABS has no effect on) before it loses forward traction (which is what ABS senses and does control).

If you want a more technical explanation, go to Premium Luke's somewhat difficult to fathom "Turning Circle" post.

I think it's obvious we are talking about heavy braking. And that was what I was trying to say w/o going into the details. If you're in a situation that needs ABS then you better not be trying to turn as well.

 

[somebody5788]

Michael do you have direct experience with the ABS system in question, or any other recent motorcycle ABS system?

I ask as it sounds like you're basing your argument on a system that sounds more like the very simplistic ABS in the old 2000 Subaru I used to own than anything I've had an opportunity to sample on a bike in the past few years.

Most of my experience is with Ducati's ST, and no question that system reacts FAR quicker than I can. It's quite elegant, if the traction is there you can put the bike into a proper stoppie, otherwise it seamlessly keeps the wheel from stopping. The newer systems such as the combined traction control and ABS available on the MTS1200 are lean angle aware as well.

I've saved myself from lowsiding when trailbraking by modulating my brake input which means ABS can help there as well.

When all the riders and racers I respect are unanimously advising FOR ABS on bikes, it tells me the current kit is pretty **** good.

While I don't think this system is lean angle aware it's new and is fast enough to control wheel slip. I've seen other CBR's with it do stoppies on loose surfaces on accident. W/o ABS it would have just locked up before the weight transfer and not been able to stop as quickly. Obviously if you do propper progressive breaking that's not the case but when you have to go from 15mph to 0 in less then 4 feet you don't have time to do progressive breaking and you can only just slam it and hope you didn't hit it too hard haha.

 

[woolf]

abs

guys & gals pro OR JUST starting WITH YOUR, 1ST RIDE, I have over 400,000 miles on BMW motorcycles with ABS barkes from a '09 R1200HP2 SORT @ 420LBS,'99 R1100S 2 501 lbs,'02 K1200RS @ 620LBS PLUS 2 rides . I will not have a motorcycle with out ABS. it will not make you stop faster it will let you stop SAFER.

 

[furious_blue]

First ABS and now traction control is making it to motorcycles. These are great inroads for increased safety. The traction control on the BMW S1000 and the Kawasaki ZX-10 can be set to counteract traction loss while cornering. My biggest fear about a powerful bike: too much power for conditions while leaned over. Some might say 'well if you were just a better rider you wouldn't get yourself into that situation to begin with'.. I beg to differ.. there could be a slick patch on asphalt that one doesn't see.. or maybe you sneezed or hit some unseen bump in a corner and gave it too much throttle...
I can't wait until these more advanced technologies start to trickle down..

 

[Michael]

guys & gals pro OR JUST starting WITH YOUR, 1ST RIDE, I have over 400,000 miles on BMW motorcycles with ABS barkes from a '09 R1200HP2 SORT @ 420LBS,'99 R1100S 2 501 lbs,'02 K1200RS @ 620LBS PLUS 2 rides . I will not have a motorcycle with out ABS. it will not make you stop faster it will let you stop SAFER.

Gee whizz, a real motorcycle aristocrat, who must spend a lot of time on highways on some fancy heavyweight metal.

By comparison, I am a mere serf. I have only about 400,000 mostly byway kilometers on bikes I have owned since the mid '70s. I have done a few more on bikes I have been provided with for work, or loaned (including a BMW K1000 for a couple of weeks) and a whole lot of time off road, mainly on farms, starting in the mid 60's. I am not a fair weather blacktop biker.

I have owned five Hondas and one Suzuki, all of which were second hand 100 - 325 cc, each costing less than $US1000. My current ride cost about $US400 eight years ago, and has done 190,000 km, about 100,000 of them mine.

I have been involved in only one potentially serious accident, back in 1976, and braking had nothing to do with it. A car passed another car at high speed and knocked me off as pulled ahead of the car he had just passed. The driver accepted that he was at fault, saying that he didn't even see me.

But I realised that if I had been more aware of what was going on around me, and was in a better position on the road I could have avoided the accident. I took that on board and learned from the experience.

I don't deny that ABS and other technology can be of assistance (especially on heavyweight machines and highways, both of which I find boring), but I do feel that the claims made for it are exaggerated. Wow, it seems there is some pretty fancy stuff available now that can allow for lean angles and so on.

However from what I have seen and deduced, ABS is of limited benefit on two wheels, certainly not the game changer it was in cars.

Can it allow for over-confidence (that technology and gear seems to inspire in some) and arrogant stupidity?

A bit of common sense would be a bigger life saver.

From SilverShadow:

I think that over - relying on technology might make people overconfident & take undue risk or people might not be that alert or reactive to situations.

From the CBR250R Owner's Manual:

This model is also equipped with an Anti- lock Brake System (ABS) designed to help prevent wheel lock up during hard braking on uneven or other poor surfaces while running straight. Although the wheel may not lock up-if you are braking too hard in a turn the motorcycle can still lose traction, causing a loss of control.

In some situations, a motorcycle with ABS may require a longer stopping distance to stop on loose or uneven surfaces than an equivalent motorcycle without ABS.

ABS cannot make up for road conditions, bad judgment, or improper operation of the brakes. It is still your responsibility to ride at reasonable speeds for weather, road surface, and traffic conditions, and to leave a margin of safety.


But poor old pleb that I am, what do I know?

If I knew a little of what far superior bucks and blades know, then I would know a little.

 

[woolf]

miles

THANKS
I send only about 10% on HWYs. I like to find all the back roads to take on our rides. if you want to try a HOT ROD try a R1200HP2 SORT,lets of fun on the track,bake roads of california,you can do the hole state with out going on a FREE WAY.

 

[Metalstorm]

I think what Michael is trying to say is that you're dealing with different forces & traction when leaned over than you do when you're upright.

He is correct. Braking and steering on a bike do not mix. Not with standard brakes and not with ABS brakes.

Trail braking can be done but you really want to get all your braking done before you dip down. It is safest. It is fastest. It is safest. Did I mention that it's safest?

Cars can be steered under braking because they have wheels on the outside to counter centrifugal forces. Bikes being vehicles with two wheels in tandem do not function like that. Braking hard-medium while leaned over can overload the front tire and exceed traction. ABS can not help you here because you will have already overloaded the front. This usually equals a lowside.