[J-e-L-L-o]

Hello everyone. First post (outside of welcome area).

Well going to buy one. First bike. I'm sold after reading all the great things about it on the site. So my question is what should I buy? Totally new to motorcycles, and have never ridden one. I will complete my safety course in a couple weeks, and will try to put a deposit on a new bike in a few days...if not today.

I know what ABS is and its benefits, but would u recommend it to a complete Novice? Whats the benefits of NOT getting ABS for a new rider. I will use my bike for commuting (after I get used to it) for commuting 40 miles on the 118 in LA/Ventura county. It's a pretty tame highway compared to the 101 or 405.

I don't plan on getting another bike soon, so what do you guys think?

Thanx!

 

[J-e-L-L-o]

‪Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS‬‏ - YouTube

never mind...I'm gettin ABS!

 

[Garcia20Fast]

I have the ABS. I think the ABS works great( I've tested it out on gravel just so I know what it will feel like if it engages). This is also my first bike and I commute about 35 miles every day. I've found that it will only take once when some moron decides to cut me off and I will need to lock up the brakes. So I figure, being a new rider, I better be safe than sorry. Plus the price difference really just seems to make it worth while. Overall its you choice, hopefully I never have to use ABS, thats my goal. I think its worth the extra change if you aren't on a super tight budget. So yes I would reccomend it to a novice. I don't know of any advantages of not having ABS because hopefully you never use it anyways.
Good luck with your choice and congrats.
Ride Safe, Have Fun.

 

[Luke]

As always, my opinion:

ABS Pros

1. The wheels should not lock unless you're below 6mph. If you grab a handful of brakes and don't progressively apply the brake like you are supposed to, the ABS will kick in and keep the wheel(s) from locking up. This gives you some protection against a lowside, where the front wheel washes out and you go down.
2. You get some front brakes even if all you do is press the rear brake pedal. The cbr250 has a "combined" ABS system, i.e. when you press the rear brake pedal it also controls a single puck on the front brake (you should always apply both brakes).

ABS Cons:

1. ABS can take longer to stop. If you practice and refine your braking technique, you will learn to apply the brakes more powerfully, especially to the front end. The manual for he CBR explicity states that shorter braking distances can be obtained without using ABS
2. Braking on loose surfaces (e.g. gravel) can result in erratic ABS application and probably will result in longer stopping distances.
3. Some (not All) people who have ABS think it alleviates the need to develop good progressive braking skills. Remember that braking is but one part of the response to a dangerous situation. Putting all of your faith in a single part of the reaction will most likely leave you coming up short.

If you had asked this question six months ago, I would have told you not to waste your money. However, conversations with other people (some on this site) have caused me to moderate my position. For a new rider, I think ABS could be helpful provided the rider is going to get the knowlege and put in the practice to not need it. ABS should be a last resort, not a substitute or a crutch. If your ABS kicks in, then you failed. Fail enough, and it won't matter how many tools try to save you, you're done. There are a number of good books on street and sport riding - all of them spend a significant amount of time on brakes.

Good luck with your decision. It's not a trivial amount of money, but if it keeps your fairings off the ground, then it's worth it.

Luke

 

[Corehound]

ABS helps eliminate one of the many possibilities for injury or death. Anything that reduces your chances of an untimely demise is worth it in my book. That being said, I caved and dropped the hammer on a Non ABS bike, hopefuly I don't regret it.

To add; I whole heartedly agree wite Luke, proper braking technique should be learned and applied ABS or no. ABS should be an aide, not a crutch.

 

[J-e-L-L-o]

Oh I agree. I don't plan on zipping around town at max speed, and I am older and wiser, so I know the benefits of defensive driving. (just not on a bike).

I know when I previously looked at motorcycles, ABS was an expensive add on. But on this bike its fairly cheap. Not that I will rely on it, but its nice to know that the bike will be somewhat smarter than me while I am applying the brakes. Emergency or not.

In the video I linked too, there was some 30% reduction in accidents on bikes with ABS compared to non ABS... if it helps (not relying on it) keep my skin off the ground, I am all for it.

 

[Apollo626]

I'm right where you are Jello. I'm taking my MSF course next weekend and just put down a deposit last weekend on my CBR. Originally I had planned to poney up the extra $500 for the ABS, but after doing research and talking with several guys at my local bike shop I decided to get the non-ABS.

I didn't want to become reliant on the ABS as a crutch, and I'll use the fact that I don't have it as extra motivation to take time out to learn how to properly use the breaks.

 

[J-e-L-L-o]

cool man. I signed up for mine August 16. Just got my california license today (i was a florida resident for a long time, but I am out of the military now) and hopefully will have my bike in September. I actually found 2 bikes today, one red the other black, at the same shop...but I will wait for ABS.

I guess my reasoning is, I wouldn't buy a car without ABS... might as well do the same with my first motorcycle if I can afford it..

 

[Pete]

It's not that expensive.
How much do you think you'll spend on a helmet? Are you going to get the cheapest one?

 

[godfather1981]

Hi All,

I was not sure if I qualify to comment here but still wanted to give me peice of mind. Ihave driven bikes (low end ones 100 cc- 600cc) for over 15 years in India without any experience on ABS ever.

However, I decided to go for ABS CBR for the following reasons:-

1> I am pretty comfortable with my braking decisions ( be attentive, act smart, drive slow in traffic and then should know how to manouver your bike in emergency cases). Having said all this - I fsomeone gave me a safety feature in my bike (like ABS) at extra cost, I will surely go for it cause you NEVER KNOW when you would need it.

2> I test rode both options in CBR - Felt I could control the non ABS better but still with ABS braking was sound enough. I did hard stops on ABS to see if it skids and was happy that it didnt at all.

3> It rains cats and dogs in bangalore. with teh dirt on the road, most of times it is muddy and very very slippery. under these conditions, if the ABS helps me control it better - HELL YEAH!!


And finally, good to hear lukes change of mind on ABS( i have read his side of arguments on why non ABS was better and coule relate to him) but feel any extra feature on the bike related to safety for drivers is a sureshot go ahead!!!

 

[godfather1981]

to add one more thing in support of ABS on bike. Have gone through a lot of forums around digging info on ABS vs non ABS - surprisingly, a lot of people still said that non ABS is better. But NOONE ever said that they were in a accident with a ABS bike and blamed it on ABS for that!!

 

[Luke]

...good to hear lukes change of mind on ABS...

Haven't really "changed my mind" - I never even considered buying the ABS-equipped 250. And even when I was more vocal about it, I always stated that it was a personal choice.

I still don't think ABS on motorcycles comes close to the functionality you get in 4-wheel vehicles - the extra two wheel sensors provide reams more input for the computer, and the lock/unlock sequence can be staggered much more efficiently. And I think most people, once they "trust" ABS to save the day, will tend to de-emphazise braking skills, human nature being what it is.

I routinely look over my shoulder when the pavement is nice and, if there's no one behind me, practice hard stopping. I'm confident this behavior will result in increased front brake / tire wear, but to me that's a small price to pay.

As far as no one ever blaming ABS, there was an accident in my area night before last where a motorcyclist died when his "front brake failed", according to local news stories. Looked like a relatively new sportbike, if it had ABS can I blame ABS for the accident? No - he was riding at a speed which severely limited his options in the event of a problem.

And that's my biggest issue about ABS - stopping efficiently is just one of a long list of things you need to do to ride safely, yet many riders seem to think if they're got ABS they're good to go. Too often it turns into a substitute for keeping a safe distance, watching for hazards, and riding within your personal skill levels. I read a recent article in Cycle World where Mark Cernicky (a skilled test rider) was gushing about how the ABS and the Traction Control on the new Aprilla let him push the bike much further that he would have otherwise. That's fine on a track - but too many people on the street fail to realize that real-world corners discourage knee-dragging by distributing random patches of gravel at the apex, and real-world straightaways have idiots on cellphones that turn left in front of you. If you're depending on ABS to get you through that, you bet on the wrong horse - redirect your efforts to the computer that's working BOTH the throttle and brakes, aka you.

Sorry to be so long-winded, but if you got this far, thanks.

Luke

p.s. GF1981, you're more than "qualified to comment". I guarantee that everyone on this board knows more about something than anyone else does. For me personally, I'm always interested in where others live and ride.

 

[Aufitt]

Gawd this ABS debate is a laugh.

 

[godfather1981]

@Luke - I think I and you are making the same point but in different words .
Like you, I agree that ABS is nowhere a substitute of braking skills one can develop and ABS should not be a reason to make you do stupid things on bikes(like driving insanely fast which you never would if your bike didnot have ABS).

All in all, my point is ( which I believe, you also have agreed on in your earlier posts)that ABS is a great feature to have on a 2 wheeler ( not comparing its benefits with 4 wheelers), under the conditions that you drive carefully and well aware of your driving surroundings. ABS is just a safety feature which will hopefully help you save you from a tricky situation where you might skid and crash.

But my question again to you Luke - have you driven ABS bikes?, tested the functionality and still feel that non ABS is better ? Please do answer this NOT considering the following:-
1> your braking skills
2> overall driving skills
3> you will continue to drive the way you do (for both ABS and non ABS options)

and will you still say that a safety feature as ABS is something that you will never go ahead with?
I will clearly understand this to be your personal point of view and really would not argue about if you are right or wrong

 

[Aufitt]

I'd be more concerned about the combined braking trailing the rear than some device that prevents a full lock up in a ****! Kangaroo/car T bone moment

I've never ridden a bike with ABS but do wonder what its like for stoppies?
could pull huge ones on my Daytona and the Speed triple... guess the little cbr has not got enough weight shift to try it tho.

 

[Luke]

lol - I never say never. I have ridden an ABS bike, but I didn't test the ABS, not going to push the limits on hardware that doesn't belong to me ("Sorry I trashed your bike, man, but that ABS doesn't work like everyone said it would...").

If you want it, buy it. Based on your comments, you won't be one of the people that thinks they don't need anything else.

Aufitt (no thread hijack, pm me please) - What do you think of the Street Triple, and Triumph in general? Service? Quality? Longevity? And, I have seen a picture of a ABS-equipped 250R in a stoppie, so it CAN be done (or photoshopped well, anyways...)

 

[Aufitt]

lol - I never say never. I have ridden an ABS bike, but I didn't test the ABS, not going to push the limits on hardware that doesn't belong to me ("Sorry I trashed your bike, man, but that ABS doesn't work like everyone said it would...").

If you want it, buy it. Based on your comments, you won't be one of the people that thinks they don't need anything else.

Aufitt (no thread hijack, pm me please) - What do you think of the Street Triple, and Triumph in general? Service? Quality? Longevity? And, I have seen a picture of a ABS-equipped 250R in a stoppie, so it CAN be done (or photoshopped well, anyways...)

G'day Luke.. I'm going to get a test ride on abs demo model next trip to the city.. will be interesting.. local dealer wont let me trash his showroom model lol.

Yes there is a vid somewhere of a cbr doing wheelies and stoppies in the 'Wheelie' thread.

Love to hear from anyone here that has at least 10/20 yrs hard riding sportsbikes, or a season of racing or trackdays etc under their belt that actually owns a cbr250 ABS to put this to rest..???

I'm at the stage where My only concern is the combined rear as our best twisty roads are bumpy as **** and we use the rear brake to settle the bike at speed...my concern is that it adds front brake.
But... Id also like the ABS for those moments when even an experienced rider just has to wash of speed before the big impact (yes Ive written off a YZF vs car running red light.and was wheelchair bound for a year).

I realise this is the noob thread but its all relative.. some take a month to learn.. some never learn in a lifetime.

 

[Luke]

Glad you're walking and riding again, Aufitt!

 

[7point62fmj]

Motorcycle Safety Statistics: Crash, Fatal Bike Accidents


23. More than half of the accident-involved motorcycle riders had less than 5 months experience on the accident motorcycle, although the total street riding experience was almost 3 year.

I feel that proper braking with out ABS can be obtained through expirance to handle emergency braking needs and could even be called superior to ABS due to the short distance issue but as a noob you can see above that time is not on your side. Most drivers in an emergancy have a knee jerk reaction. This can be trained and taught out of the rider but it takes TIME and expirance. As a new rider most of my effort goes in to how to take a turn properly and safely. You will learn that it is the low speed steep right hand turns that throw a rench in to things. You can only address one concern at a time and knowing that locking up my brakes did not have to be front an center was a relief to me, considering ever thing else I had on my plate.
Learn the statistics and do the opposite!

 

[w0rM]

I've seen those stats. Probably why I drive like a grandpa most of the time.