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Discussion Starter #1

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Jeez, check out the prices, <$1300US out the door for the Shine!

Just a WAG on my part but I'd bet that water cooled motors have the potential to be more fuel efficient than air-cooled assuming that power output is equal.
 

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Check out the fuel economy of these air cooled motorcycles from India. Riders of the Honda Shine are reporting real world numbers of 125 mpgUS, 53 km/l, 1.89 liters/100km. And that is more or less a real road worthy motorcycle with 18 inch wheels and 11hp. The Twister must be ridiculously cheap to buy and ges 165 mpgUS, 65 km/l, 1.43 l/ 100km.
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CB Shine winner's choice
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Mileage of Honda Twister Variants, Honda Twister Fuel Efficiency, Honda Twister Mileage | Mileage at CarTradeIndia.com
As you know Sendler, air cooled bikes are typically lighter in weight - which can obviously impact fuel economy. Compared to the last generation of the Canadian CBR125R, the Shine appears to be about 20lbs lighter in weight. I also wonder how much these bikes are detuned (the CBR125R appears to make 3 more hp - almost 30% more - for the same displacement) and whether these bikes are geared more specifically for fuel economy (a strong selling feature in India). Are they running leaner than usual? Also, it appears that many people ride these bikes at around 50 km/hr (30 mph) in India - which would definitely contribute to more impressive fuel economy numbers.

I would be curious to see the fuel-economy outcome of the CBR250R ridden in city-like "stop and go" 50km/hr environment and under a constant 50km/hr speed on a circuit loop.

Mike
 

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My Nighthawk 750 was oil/air cooled, weighed 480 pounds, and got 50 mpg. Pretty efficient for the power and weight.
It would, however, suffer a loss of power in very hot weather (90 degrees F plus) doing long climbs. I'll have to see if the CBR has the same problem.
 

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Hey that shine shitbox is my old 1980 CB125n with some ugly new plastics, electric start and missing a gear from the box and a few HP.

In 30 yrs time India will still be making the cbr250 basically unchanged haha.
 

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A coolant pump will also rob some fuel economy.
An almost unmeasurable amount though.

It's probably because they run hotter, meaning the engine super heats the air and makes it less dense, this causes a power loss but more fuel efficiency.
 

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As you know Sendler, air cooled bikes are typically lighter in weight - which can obviously impact fuel economy. Compared to the last generation of the Canadian CBR125R, the Shine appears to be about 20lbs lighter in weight. I also wonder how much these bikes are detuned (the CBR125R appears to make 3 more hp - almost 30% more - for the same displacement) and whether these bikes are geared more specifically for fuel economy (a strong selling feature in India). Are they running leaner than usual? Also, it appears that many people ride these bikes at around 50 km/hr (30 mph) in India - which would definitely contribute to more impressive fuel economy numbers.

I would be curious to see the fuel-economy outcome of the CBR250R ridden in city-like "stop and go" 50km/hr environment and under a constant 50km/hr speed on a circuit loop.

Mike
I think this is a major factor in those MPG numbers.

As far as better MPG from an aircooled engine - not sure. Aircooled means looser tolerances, and maybe that translates to reduce friction - but less power. You do use some power to circulate the coolant, and need a radiator, so there's more frontal area (drag) also. Added weight might have some effect, but adding 10 to 20 pounds to the bike/rider combo isn't huge.

Overall, I'm thinking the high mileage is from consistently lower speeds where the minimal drag isn't requiring very much throttle opening from the small engine. Most likely a water cooler engine of the same type and size would do even better.


Jay
 

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Overall, I'm thinking the high mileage is from consistently lower speeds where the minimal drag isn't requiring very much throttle opening from the small engine. Most likely a water cooler engine of the same type and size would do even better.


Jay
That's more like it. These engines don't encourage spirited riding either as there is a palpable drop in power after some time, and the cycle parts aren't much to brag about. A lot of the riders on these machines will not exceed 50kph even if they can - that's the speed at which they are designed to be most economical. At those speeds, a water cooled engine would not be significantly more economical and the added parts would definitely make it cost more.
 

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We're also not comparing apples with apples. One one hand we have an air-cooled MC that gets 125mpg and a water-cooled one that gets maybe 85MPG.

Should we be saying WOW at the 125PMG or should we be saying HMMM, it ONLY gets 125MPG since it's only putting out half the HP of the CBR250 but using getting far less than twice the MPG that the 250 does?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Wow

We're also not comparing apples with apples. One one hand we have an air-cooled MC that gets 125mpg and a water-cooled one that gets maybe 85MPG.

Should we be saying WOW at the 125PMG or should we be saying HMMM, it ONLY gets 125MPG since it's only putting out half the HP of the CBR250 but using getting far less than twice the MPG that the 250 does?
We should be saying wow. The Shine is apparently beating the fuel economy of the similar performance CBR125R by 20%. And it is even beating the PCX scooter which, given the choice, I would choose the 18 inch wheels of the Shine any day. Unless they go through engines due cheap build quality and air cooling.
 

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We should be saying wow. The Shine is apparently beating the fuel economy of the similar performance CBR125R by 20%. And it is even beating the PCX scooter which, given the choice, I would choose the 18 inch wheels of the Shine any day. Unless they go through engines due cheap build quality and air cooling.
With 30% less horsepower than the CBR125R, I don't think the Shine will shine in a performance comparison with the 125R.

Mike
 

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With 30% less horsepower than the CBR125R, I don't think the Shine will shine in a performance comparison with the 125R.

Mike

It's not built as a performance bike - the focus is towards minimal cost of ownership and that includes FE. It does not have any issues with build quality either, and the segment that buys it is not going to be flogging it, it's bought (by them) as low cost means of transport.
 

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It's not built as a performance bike - the focus is towards minimal cost of ownership and that includes FE. It does not have any issues with build quality either, and the segment that buys it is not going to be flogging it either, it's bought (by them) as low cost means of transport.
I was merely commenting on Sendler's suggestion that the performance between the two bikes was "similar". With the CBR125R yielding nearly 30% more horsepower over the Shine - I don't believe their performance would be similar.

Mike
 

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I would be curious to see the fuel-economy outcome of the CBR250R ridden in city-like "stop and go" 50km/hr environment and under a constant 50km/hr speed on a circuit loop.

Mike[/QUOTE]


My CBR250R gives me between 27-30kmpl in city like stop and go 50km/hr environment..
 
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