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Mongooses first line of his original post stated " Do what your manual tells you to."
If people would read their manual and take a MSF course we wouldnt need all these how to break in and I cant figure out how to shift my bike threads.
Im done now, have to go back to the "if you ride it in the rain the bike will dissenegrate" thread.
 

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I am supposed to be getting my CBR250R this Thursday. When I pick it up I will take care to ride it smoothly, at various speeds, and at various rpms. This won't be inconsistent with the manual. No rapid accelerations - mainly because I have no need to do so anyway.

I wonder though. Honda is a great company that builds high performing, incredibly reliable bikes. Are their bikes really so fragile and mechanically vulnerable during their first 600 miles that breaking them in "incorrectly" will invariably make them run poorly and bring about future reliability problems? I think if this was the case - any prudent manufacturer would just break them in themselves, as they wouldn't be able to control for all the people that might otherwise inconsistently break-in and damage their bikes - which could lead to expensive warranty repairs. Motorcycles are incredibly robust machines. Honda can't control how new owners will treat their bikes. I'm sure many go on long trips and don't vary their speeds right after their purchase. Heck most people probably don't even know what "lugging" their car engine involves - yet it occurs and likely during the break-in period as well. Many drive their vehicles without warming them up, even in below freezing temperatures, and accelerate hard when cold, idle them incessantly for long periods of time, don't get their oil changed until the low oil pressure light appears on their dash and they have to ask their friend what it means (many people I know don't even know how to check their oil), drive mostly in the city with lots of stops and starts, bumper to bumper, with the air conditioning on - in the scorching midday sun. Yet - if engines are so sensitive to break-in procedures where are all the engine problems? Engines are more reliable than ever based on vehicle long-term reliability studies. It wouldn't make sense to produce an engine that wouldn't ultimately run fine if a specific break-in procedure wasn't followed. I would like to see data from Honda on how many bikes have run poorly due to "inproper" break in procedures. How many of their bikes actually run poorly off the showroom floor - and out of these how many were due to inproper break-in? Maybe there are slight variances in performance caused by variability in break-in methods - who knows - but would these variances be measurable or even relevant to everday riders? Bikes are made so much better with respect to overall quality and production tolerances, I suspect that they are so robust that they will run well no matter how hard you treat them (right now for some reason I am getting a flashback of a Honda Cub being launched off a building in a Discovery Channel episode). See link below. :)

YouTube - ‪Greatest motorcycle ever‬‏

Having said that, I am waiting for an organization (A prominent motorcycle magazine? Mythbusters? Or perhaps Consumer Reports?!) to test the Motoman method systematically. It would certainly garner lots of attention, as break-in procedure threads on motorcycle forums are about as controversial as online discussions of loud pipes, helmets, politics, and religion. I'm sure the motoman site has lots of hits. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Such claims need to be tested. For starters, I would like to propose a test that includes:

1. The purchase of 20 CBR250Rs from a large dealership (all the same color). Using a rigorous experimental procedure, have a technician (not directly involved with the study) label each bike with a number hidden out of sight on the bike. Only the technician is privy to this number. Then have 10 of the 20 bikes randomly selected to be subjected to a precise, consistent, and repeatable motoman method procedure by a test rider. The other 10 bikes would be ridden by the same test rider, on the same closed circuit, on the same day, using a precise, consistent, and repeatable manufacturer recommended break-in procedure.

2. Then have all the bikes tested in random order on the same dyno on the same day to yield rear-wheel power. A simple t-test to compare means should suffice to see if there is a statistically significant difference in rear-wheel hp between the motoman treated bikes versus the convention break-in bikes.

Understandably, the above test wouldn't be completely conclusive. For instance, it is just one test, and the findings might not be generalizable. As we all know "one swallow doesn't make a summer". Hopefully other magazines would conduct their own follow-up testing for replication purposes. And the above test wouldn't address the possibility that inproper break-in methods might yield shorter engine life-spans over time. Also - a statistically significant result (e.g., a reliable .2 hp difference between groups) might not even be meaningful in the real-world. But let the testers sort this out.

For what it's worth,

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
. I'm sure the motoman site has lots of hits. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Such claims need to be tested.
Agree 100%. I remember years ago reading on another "secrets revealed site" that putting acetone in your gas tank with your gas improved mileage, performance, ect ect. Well Mythbusters tested it. They tested 2 cars and didn't get any improvement. Additionally, it was tested by Greg Davis of the Mechanical Engineering Department at Kettering University. He didn't find any improvement either.
 

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Some manufacturers are using a special break in oil. My buddy's KTM had that and we broke it in Motoman style and just left the oil in until the 600 service. ... I wouldn't doubt that your break in process had mostly to do with the clutch. Triumphs tend to have good clutch feel and that's usually attributed to materials.

Today's materials are so hard and well finished that you really can't hurt the motor unless you lug it or drone it on the freeway before break in.
It's an interesting idea, but I doubt very seriously that the specific max-rpm vs breakin mileage instructions from Triumph had anything to do with 'conditioning the clutch' or something like that.

The engineers at Triumph would probably also disagree today's materials are 'so hard' that you can't hurt the motor such that violating their rpm guidelines during breakin will not result in a less than optimal result.

AFAIK, motors aren't necessarily about having 'hard' parts.. for example between 2 plain bearing surfaces they can't both be 'hard' or the bearing will never last...
 

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Are their bikes really so fragile and mechanically vulnerable during their first 600 miles that breaking them in "incorrectly" will invariably make them run poorly and bring about future reliability problems?
No, but the rings need to be seated. This doesn't happen on production for obvious reasons. Staying beneath a low RPM, or sitting at a single RPM early on isn't going to seat them properly.

On a new bike the tyres need to be run in, and the brakes, hence the manual advice for neither rapid acceleration/deceleration, and for conservative riding. They mention nothing about RPM because for the rings to seat properly it needs to be ridden like most people will ride anyway.
 

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What's really ironic about this thread is that according to the manufacturer's "break in " guidelines the Mototune process would be okay. It just says to avoid full throttle starts and avoid rapid acceleration. That's pretty vague. Also, the dealer didn't specify how low to keep the revs. 2-3000 rpm will glaze the cylinder walls and lug the motor. And, Mongoose didn't state his qualifications for being able to make the statement "I'm putting this to rest..." You guys are also ignoring the very large body of practical experience in both the sportbike and adventure bike markets and some of these guys have much more nuts and bolts experience than the average dealer. They've also done easy vs. hard break in routines and have had better results with the hard break in. I personally have had good experiences with breaking in my motorcycles that way. I have two liter class bikes that make over 160hp. You can't do that in a 1000 or 1200cc bike if you don't have good compression and all parts working as they should. I haven't had any bearing failures, camshaft galling or, if you're a GS rider, final drive failures. The fact that the factories test them to redline through all the gears before shipment hasn't been addressed either. So keep the rubber side down and stay out of the hedges.
 

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Now your just being a troll. If this thread bothers you so much then find something else to do with your time. Your not sharing any input or advice here! That's the point of a forum. To exchange info. All your on here to do is police my comments. Get a life dude.
He is not being a troll. He is explaining to you that you are interpreting the manual's instructions wrong. The manual does not instruct you to keep the RPMs low... It says nothing like that. You are confused.

In addition, the break in procedural decribed by motoman did not start with motoman .... If you don't trust motoman.. perhaps the pros will convince you. I'm starting a new thread and will be reprinting an article from motorcyclist magazine.. It may change your perspective.. which now seems based on a lack of understanding of the technical purpose of engine break in... Look for my thread... coming soon.
 

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I've participated in this same discussion on several forums for years now. It doesn't matter who you believe. It doesn't matter who makes more sense. It comes down to this;
If you expect a magazine writer, or Motoman, or anyone else on the internet to warranty your bike if it breaks, then break it in their way.
If you expect Honda to warranty it if it breaks, break it in Honda's way.
Like CBR250r said, it probably won't break either way, but seriously, if you manufactured something; bikes, furniture, yoyos, anything, and someone came back to you and said "I'm smarter than you, so I didn't treat it the way you told me to, and now it's broken so give me another one" what would say to them?

Have Fun,
Java
 

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Good point, Java... I find it hard to believe that the Honda Engineers who designed and tested this engine would intentionally detail a break-in process that shortens the life of it - especially when you consider the abuse that has been heaped upon manufactuers in the past when their equipment has chronic issues.

In addition, a lot of bikes now have computers that keep up with historical data just like the car computers do. Smart on the manufacturer's part - knowing what happened right before a failure can be critical to fixing a flaw. Useful also to debunk a bogus claim - I have a friend what writes service at a large dealership and he tells me about the Corvette owners that come in with issues, claiming they never went over 55 when the data printout clearly shows different.

Scream Big Brother all you want - but when you buy the bike you're expecting the dealer to fix it for free if something breaks in the first year. If you loop the bike trying wheelies, you're not even going to bother trying to get that covered. However, running the crap out of a new bike is not that much different - but it used to be harder to prove.

One of my favorite quotes from my friend: "I've never seen a blown engine yet that didn't have fresh oil in it...Figure that!"

Luke
 

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Mongooses first line of his original post stated " Do what your manual tells you to."
From page 59 of the manual for the CBR250R/RA, as sold in Malaysia:

RUNNING-IN
Help assure your motorcycle’s future reliability and performance by paying extra attention to how you ride during the first 500 km (300 miles).
During this period, avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration.
I think this thread is over.
 

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American Honda recommends a break-in procedure that keeps people from doing idiotic things with brand new machines, and limits the number of warranty claims. It is as simple as that.

Baby your motor all you want, you are the one paying for it. But for Christ sake, the owner's manual is not the Bible. Move out of your mother's basement and get a grip on reality.
 

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American Honda recommends a break-in procedure that keeps people from doing idiotic things with brand new machines, and limits the number of warranty claims. It is as simple as that.

Baby your motor all you want, you are the one paying for it. But for Christ sake, the owner's manual is not the Bible. Move out of your mother's basement and get a grip on reality.
So doing what the manufacturer recommends is equivalent to living your mother's basement and demonstrates a lack of grip on reality? That's brilliant.

Please step away from the internet and shutdown your computer before you hurt yourself.
 

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American Honda recommends a break-in procedure that keeps people from doing idiotic things with brand new machines, and limits the number of warranty claims. It is as simple as that.

Baby your motor all you want, you are the one paying for it. But for Christ sake, the owner's manual is not the Bible. Move out of your mother's basement and get a grip on reality.
Here we go again........
 

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