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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I'm gonna try to get a budget for the clutch work off my mechanic tomorrow.

As for videos of clutch replacement, I found a TON... from thailand...and one from some russianesque comrads. Unfortunatelly I dont speak either language but I did however find a series of short videos by and american called ''Walden'' on the subject. I went ahead and created a playlist with them because hes got thousands of videos lol

I feel he didn't explain everything, He for sure skipped the bolts needed to remove the clutch but he did have some interesting additions, I liked him scratching the metal plates on concrete, im sure thats not in the service manual 馃槀

Also found this one, thailand, not the best angle but with some English commentary on the screen.


I'm also leaving the russian one because it has a really good camera angle and an actual cameraman! allthough I dont understand it and they didnt clearly bathe the plates in oil or even put oil on them (which I think is necessary right?) 馃槄

Would you say there are difficulties that aren't in the service manual? Or anything that requires special tools or products?
Can I not use a toothbrush or a rubber perhaps to remove the filter without scratching the aluminum sealing surface?



As for the coolant, this is the one I used:

Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive design Bumper
Fluid Gesture Finger Font Gas


It was given to me by Honda so I believe it should be right?
 

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As for the coolant, this is the one I used:
Fluid Finger Communication Device Font Gas
Font Newspaper Material property News Publication

According to the specifications written on the package, it says: "Ethylene Glycol", so it should be fine. But there are also fakes ones. The mark you photographed on the line connection of the pump cover looks to me like the aluminum oxide, and not only a leak of green coolant:
Liquid Water Automotive lighting Hood Flash photography

But I make a suggestion, maybe I'm wrong?
As for videos of clutch replacement, I found a TON...I feel he didn't explain everything, ...
The videos on YouTube are not a substitute for professional literature, they are not a substitute for accumulated knowledge, or ability, they are mostly intended for entertainment. The two videos you mentioned above are not a complete course in mechanics. So there are many videos on the subject, are they help you?
My answer: They mostly give you the illusion as if it is "The Regular" procedure of changing clutch pads, and I claim, in the CBR250R it's really not ONLY "The Regular" procedure, there are a lot of details at the ENGINE COVER CASE and it's complex.

If you want to use these videos, that are contain a mistakes, along with a lack of other essential information, you must have at least one of the following books with you:
  • Honda's complete technical book, or...
  • HAYNES service manual.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
The coolant was actually blue. I doubt it's fake since I bought it directly from Honda. I think it matches how dried coolant looks. The white is probably just powdered ethylene.

I have a pdf of a service manual


Ill leave it here for anyone who doesn't have it.

I know videos aren't everything, they just help me visualize some steps. Not in this case but sometimes there are videos specific to a model so complete and well explained that most people that follow them can do a service just fine! If only there was something for this job :(
Especially because I estimate if done by yourself would save you hundreds of euros, dollars, whatever's in the long run. Honda and my mechanic gave me a 355 eur and 257 eur bill respectively! The parts cannot cost more than 100eur! Friction plates on wemoto are only 50eur!

I am gonna keep researching for now!
 

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I have a pdf of a service manual
That's a great start. Read all the relevant chapters, go through all the references, and all the notes, and you will succeed. When you start reading you will understand what I am talking about (many small and important details that should not be missed).
I know videos aren't everything, they just help me visualize some steps...
... If only there was something for this job :(...
If you have the Honda motorcycle book, and if you know how to put it to good use, I think you can get by without a good video. But hey, I have most of that job on video(I hope), if you have a specific question I may be able to help you in addition to the book.
I estimate if done by yourself would save you hundreds of euros, dollars, whatever's in the long run.
Yes, but how LONG?
Over the time you learn and "save", but I don't define it as saving, because: learning costs money, sometimes it's also the money it costs to correct mistakes, sometimes it's the long time you invest in work, arranging a respectable tool box is an expensive matter... Because that's the way of a hobby, it costs money and doesn't save money:rolleyes:
 

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Use factory service-manual as true guide for procedure. DO NOT follow those youtube videos. Manual will show exact same procedure as factory-trained mechanic working at dealership. Only difference is you will be paying yourself for job and not dealer mechanic.
 

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Danno, just scratching the paper seal takes at least 40-Minutes... you live in the world of a track mechanic, OK, your conditions are different, the paper seal is not enough time to stick...
Scratching the paper seal requires careful and slow work handling so that the scratch does not destroy the aluminum sealing surface, this is the "normal" difficulty in opening the COVER case. I'm talking about the complexity that exists specifically in the cover case of our model. And if you want to say that there is no special complexity... well, then you said it. (y):)
Removing old seal material from case-cover takes no more than 2-3 minutes with razor. If you can't do it in 2-3 min, you need more practice. Go to junkyard, take apart random engines and practice cutting off old gasket material (not scraping or scratching). Use razor to cut junction between metal and gasket and it comes off in 1-piece.



Here's procedure from manual. It took me less than 15-minutes to replace clutch with new gasket. That was 5-years ago and clutch has been fine. Dealer gives 60-days warranty on clutch-repair as required by law in CA. My repair must be much better than dealer mechanic to still be working 30x longer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I will follow the service manual then, gonna familiarize myself with the steps today.

Yeah the expense on tools is why I dont swap my own tyres 馃槄 if it only requires wrenches and cheap tools i'm down to do it myself though.
I ended up spending about the same as man-hours on tools doing the brake service my first time, so from now on when I need to do it again ill be saving money! I feel like most services don't save you money the first time because of tools, but only the times after. But hey it's not just the money, you also gain a new skill and DIY is pretty fun nonetheless.

Learning does cost time, which I suppose is money, and actual money if you do courses. And mistakes do set you back so it can be a bit of a gamble. I'm lucky to have the spare time to do these things, for now at least
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Removing old seal material from case-cover takes no more than 2-3 minutes with razor. If you can't do it in 2-3 min, you need more practice. Go to junkyard, take apart random engines and practice cutting off old gasket material (not scraping or scratching). Use razor to cut junction between metal and gasket and it comes off in 1-piece.



Here's procedure from manual. It took me less than 15-minutes to replace clutch with new gasket. That was 5-years ago and clutch has been fine. Dealer gives 60-days warranty on clutch-repair as required by law in CA. My repair must be much better than dealer mechanic to still be working 30x longer.
I was thinking of using this decal/sticker remover I have, it's plastic so more unlikely to damage the aluminum, not sure if it's gonna work but we'll see lol, Ill have some razors ready JIC. Unfortunately I don't have a junkyard nearby but it's and interesting idea, sounds very fun :(
Font Electric blue Bicycle part Gadget Magenta


Question, what type of grease did you use?
I have Belray waterproof grease, but thats petroleum based. I also have SilGlyde, silicone spray and copper grease.

Also what did you use in the molybdenum oil part?

Thanks for the insight!
 

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And mistakes do set you back so it can be a bit of a gamble
A hobby is not a gamble, and it's just as much fun as you know it is. And even in a hobby there is a matter of saving, and there is the fun of making tools by yourself, or using some good and reliable cheap technique that you won't find in a Honda manual, but you learned it from a mechanic on YouTube, or an improvisation you thought of on your own... the hobby, like everything in life, needs resource management, and it has a budget limit...it is anything but not a gamble.

If you love it, if you have enough time, if you have a quiet and protected place where you can work, if you are ready to invest in tools, if you are ready to be patient and enjoy the journey, even if there are failures...
welcome to the DIY club馃馃対馃弽馃毀鉀(y)
 

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Removing old seal material from case-cover takes no more than 2-3 minutes with razor....
Nobody takes off a paper seal with a razor in three minutes. No one, except Danno.
And only Danno needs just two pages from the service book, because Danno knows all the other 20 pages, that needed to successfully at clutch pads replacement job, Danno knows them by heart.
 

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I was thinking of using this decal/sticker remover I have, it's plastic so more unlikely to damage the aluminum, not sure if it's gonna work but we'll see lol,
If the paper sticks well, and especially in areas where it is gripped hard, then a tool made of plastic will not do the job. The plastic won't damage the aluminum, but it also won't remove a paper seal that has been gripped properly. All the sharp tools that are needed for this job can destroy the aluminum surface very easily, and if they slide towards the body, they can also injure you. This work requires a lot of patience, for me it takes at least 40 minutes. For the first time take an hour and a half.
 

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I was thinking of using this decal/sticker remover I have, it's plastic so more unlikely to damage the aluminum, not sure if it's gonna work but we'll see lol, Ill have some razors ready JIC. Unfortunately I don't have a junkyard nearby but it's and interesting idea, sounds very fun :(
View attachment 45757

Question, what type of grease did you use?
I have Belray waterproof grease, but thats petroleum based. I also have SilGlyde, silicone spray and copper grease.

Also what did you use in the molybdenum oil part?

Thanks for the insight!
Hint, don't glue gasket onto case-cover. Use a little grease to help it stick, then bring over to engine horizontal. Line up bottom of case-cover with bottom of engine-case, and rotate it up with bottom in contact entire time. This keeps gasket from sliding off if you're smooth and gentle. Absolutely zero need to glue gasket to case-cover. Or if you do, only apply glue to case-cover, so gasket will come out in 1-piece next time and you can re-use without cutting it off. In 10, 15-years.

I've replaced clutch on my '86 VF500F, '86 VFR750F (bought new) just ONE time in last 36-yrs. On my 11' CBR250R (bought new) just once 5-yrs ago. Ninja 250 race bike once 5-yrs ago, Commuter Ninja 250 and EX250 once when I 1st got them 7 & 10-yrs ago. CBR250RR x2 once when I reassembled them 3 & 2-yrs ago. Haven't had to do on my CBR600RR yet. Replacing on my wife's CB125TT sometime in next month. So far, none of my clutch-replacements have failed or worn out yet. I've also upgraded to stiffer clutch-basket springs on all of them. Simple upgrade when they're apart and stronger springs help clutch grip better and not wear out as fast.
 

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Hint, don't glue gasket onto case-cover. Use a little grease to help it stick, then bring over to engine horizontal. Line up bottom of case-cover with bottom of engine-case, and rotate it up with bottom in contact entire time. This keeps gasket from sliding off if you're smooth and gentle. Absolutely zero need to glue gasket to case-cover. Or if you do, only apply glue to case-cover, so gasket will come out in 1-piece next time and you can re-use without cutting it off. In 10, 15-years.
I opened my CBR250R generator cover for his first time(from the factory). The factory didn't put glue, and I didn't put glue either (yet). But many mechanics do put glue in order for not to take a risk and waste work time, because if the surface is damaged then only the seal without glue will not seal. So that is the practice: Most garage use glue, a type of RTV. I haven't yet peel off a gasket that was treated with RTV, maybe it's easier? I put my gaskets back in place after smearing them with engine oil. I place them on the side of the engine when they are holding with the pins (Dowel pins).

And what I did in the video above is also my latest work, and I believe what I wrote in the video and not the subjective feeling is correct (13Min X 9 = 117Min): It took me two hours!!! Danno If you do it in 3Min without destroying the aluminum you are a magician.
 
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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Hint, don't glue gasket onto case-cover. Use a little grease to help it stick, then bring over to engine horizontal. Line up bottom of case-cover with bottom of engine-case, and rotate it up with bottom in contact entire time. This keeps gasket from sliding off if you're smooth and gentle. Absolutely zero need to glue gasket to case-cover. Or if you do, only apply glue to case-cover, so gasket will come out in 1-piece next time and you can re-use without cutting it off. In 10, 15-years.

I've replaced clutch on my '86 VF500F, '86 VFR750F (bought new) just ONE time in last 36-yrs. On my 11' CBR250R (bought new) just once 5-yrs ago. Ninja 250 race bike once 5-yrs ago, Commuter Ninja 250 and EX250 once when I 1st got them 7 & 10-yrs ago. CBR250RR x2 once when I reassembled them 3 & 2-yrs ago. Haven't had to do on my CBR600RR yet. Replacing on my wife's CB125TT sometime in next month. So far, none of my clutch-replacements have failed or worn out yet. I've also upgraded to stiffer clutch-basket springs on all of them. Simple upgrade when they're apart and stronger springs help clutch grip better and not wear out as fast.
I'm curious what model year CBR600RR is it?Is it comfortable to ride compared to the 250r? I'm looking to buy a second bike and not sure between the new CBR600RR or the CBR650R.



I'll keep that in mind keeping it in place for assembly and holding horizontally and starting from the bottom, good idea!

How do you know if the clutch springs are stiffer? Do you perhaps remember the model of springs you used @DannoXYZ ?

So is engine oil or grease better for holding the gasket in place? And @Tamir are you saying the dowel pins also hold the gasket in place?
I don't generally like using grease, just because it loves to attract dirt, but I can't argue with 36 years of results lol
 

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I'm curious what model year CBR600RR is it?Is it comfortable to ride compared to the 250r? I'm looking to buy a second bike and not sure between the new CBR600RR or the CBR650R.
The 600rr is more of a race bike whereas the 650r is more of a street bike. I erred by buying a 650cc ninja thinking it was more powerful/faster than the 600cc and I was horribly mistaken. Those number have very little meaning anymore. It has a little more torque in the low rpm but really, I prefer all that power way up in the high-end of the RPM range.
 

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I'll keep that in mind keeping it in place for assembly and holding horizontally and starting from the bottom, good idea!

How do you know if the clutch springs are stiffer? Do you perhaps remember the model of springs you used @DannoXYZ ?

So is engine oil or grease better for holding the gasket in place? And @Tamir are you saying the dowel pins also hold the gasket in place?
I don't generally like using grease, just because it loves to attract dirt, but I can't argue with 36 years of results lol
I selected Barnett clutch springs. They usually have several upgrade strengths to pick from. About +15-25% works well.

No problem with either grease or oil to temporarily hold gasket in place as you install. It's not exposed because it's in between gasket and case-cover. Once bolts are tightened, no dirt can get through anyway. There's tiny seepage at seam that you'll need to clean off and that's it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Yeah that's why I'm wondering if it's worth getting a 650R for the comfort and sport/touring position, since it will lack power comparred to a 600.
If I can ride a 600 for an hour without back pain would be great, if not I think I'd stick with a 650
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I selected Barnett clutch springs. They usually have several upgrade strengths to pick from. About +15-25% works well.

No problem with either grease or oil to temporarily hold gasket in place as you install. It's not exposed because it's in between gasket and case-cover. Once bolts are tightened, no dirt can get through anyway. There's tiny seepage at seam that you'll need to clean off and that's it!
Thank you! Ill look them up! On a low CC bike I feel a smooth clutch is sooo important since you generally shift so much more often.

Yeah sounds like they both do the job then!
 
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