[CBR_Pirate]

hey guys i recently just got my cbr 250 and after practicing a while with low speed 10-20 mph at parking lots and using 1st and 2nd gear. i took my cbr on my first ride through main traffic roads.......maybe using 4th or 5th gear.....the one thing i found is that when i downshift i usually just hold the clutch in then downshift one at a time as i slow down on a stop light without letting the clutch out.....i found out that the gear box doesnt work that way and wont shift so i ended up with too high gear at a stop so i stalled the engine...thankfully i wasnt left at an awkward and embarrassing place since there wasnt much traffic but it was definitely an eye opener. if anyone has any advice i would gladly welcome it especially when it comes to smoother gear shifting up or down since im still breaking-in the engine

 

[jkv357]

Shift down one gear at a time and let the clutch out each time as you are slowing but before you are completely stopped.

If you are not certain you are in 1st when stopped, let the clutch out slight then pull it back in and tap the shifter down again. Sometimes when the trans isn't spinning (clutch in) it won't let you change gears. Letting the clutch out slightly lets it move enough to change gears.

You'll get accustomed to the feel of the shifter when stopped in 1st - it has a different feel than when it's in 2nd and not willing to downshift.


Jay

 

[CBR-STL]

When downshifting I always let the clutch out each shift even if it is just for a second to let the engine do some of the braking. Then you are never guessing where you are in the shift pattern and will always be in the correct gear if you need to accelerate. I think you will become profecient at shifting quickly using this method and get a real feel for the bike. I never know which gear I'm in and I don't try to keep track. I just make sure I am in the correct gear for the speed and conditions and everything else takes care of itself.

 

[ptcary]

When downshifting I always let the clutch out each shift even if it is just for a second to let the engine do some of the braking. Then you are never guessing where you are in the shift pattern and will always be in the correct gear if you need to accelerate. I think you will become profecient at shifting quickly using this method and get a real feel for the bike. I never know which gear I'm in and I don't try to keep track. I just make sure I am in the correct gear for the speed and conditions and everything else takes care of itself.

Just wanted to say thanks, this is good advice for us newbies!

 

[sendler]

No engine braking

I almost never use any engine braking when coming up to a stop. I select each gear one at a time as if I were to engine brake so as not to over rev the trans by popping down, down, down into first while I am still going 50mph, but don't bother to let out the clutch. It can be more dangerous to ride in the rain using engine braking as the rear tire can skid if you don't match revs perfectly especially into second or first. I also feel that engine braking down through the gears is just adding undo wear and tear on the engine and drive line and is wasting a little gas. Racers do it but that is a different game. I don't believe it is necessary to rev every gear when riding in stop and go traffic.
.
But my trans does hang up in between gears sometimes. Especially the 6-5 when coasting up to a stop. At which point you must partially engage the clutch while shifting down to un jam it and then make sure to press the shifter fully and decisively through each gear change.

 

[cgherrington3]

When downshifting I always let the clutch out each shift even if it is just for a second to let the engine do some of the braking. Then you are never guessing where you are in the shift pattern and will always be in the correct gear if you need to accelerate. I think you will become profecient at shifting quickly using this method and get a real feel for the bike. I never know which gear I'm in and I don't try to keep track. I just make sure I am in the correct gear for the speed and conditions and everything else takes care of itself.

Correct. I doesn't matter which gear your in as long as it's the right one

 

[Aufitt]

I almost never use any engine braking when coming up to a stop. I select each gear one at a time as if I were to engine brake so as not to over rev the trans by popping down, down, down into first while I am still going 50mph, but don't bother to let out the clutch. It can be more dangerous to ride in the rain using engine braking as the rear tire can skid if you don't match revs perfectly especially into second or first. I also feel that engine braking down through the gears is just adding undo wear and tear on the engine and drive line and is wasting a little gas. Racers do it but that is a different game. I don't believe it is necessary to rev every gear when riding in stop and go traffic.
.
But my trans does hang up in between gears sometimes. Especially the 6-5 when coasting up to a stop. At which point you must partially engage the clutch while shifting down to un jam it and then make sure to press the shifter fully and decisively through each gear change.

Dont want to offend.. but thats some seriously bad and dangerous habits you've developed there and not good advice.

Engine brake evey gear... It is a motorcycle.

 

[sendler]

Eoc

Dont want to offend.. but thats some seriously bad and dangerous habits you've developed there and not good advice.

Engine brake evey gear... It is a motorcycle.

Serious hypermilers not only do not engine brake but will also shut the engine off for coasting. I'm not willing to go that far though as it possible to lose lube to the still spinning trans with the engine off.

 

[kflaig]

Dont want to offend.. but thats some seriously bad and dangerous habits you've developed there and not good advice.

Can you explain?

 

[Top]

Can you explain?

what he means is :

holding in the clutch in 6th gear and then slowing down solely using your brakes (while holding in the clutch and not matching your gear/engine/road speed) is dangerous because.. if you had to act quickly to avoid being rear ended/sideswiped/t-boned/ generally splattered then you may well be in the wrong gear and end up airborne/grounded before you can avoid the impact.


kinda like this

 

[Honda CBR 250 Rider]

Dont want to offend.. but thats some seriously bad and dangerous habits you've developed there and not good advice.

Engine brake evey gear... It is a motorcycle.

Maybe, but I myself since I starting riding have primarily used just the brakes to slow down because I feel more in control of what I want the bike to do and how much of it I want to be applied and I really don't like the feeling of my bike thrusting me forward when I engine brake. Its an uncomfortable feeling.

 

[Aufitt]

Coasting is bad.. you've lost control and traction of the motorcycle.
Throttles are not just for accelerating.. it controls the bike.

No motorcycle instructors will ever recommend pulling the clutch fully in except at a standstill.

Even lesson 1 teaches you to slip the clutch as you do your figure 8's while riding the rear brake in 1st or 2nd gear.

That simple little excercise teaches you more than you think at the time.

 

[kflaig]

what he means is :

holding in the clutch in 6th gear and then slowing down solely using your brakes (while holding in the clutch and not matching your gear/engine/road speed) is dangerous because.. if you had to act quickly to avoid being rear ended/sideswiped/t-boned/ generally splattered then you may well be in the wrong gear and end up airborne/grounded before you can avoid the impact...

OK, I think we're probably all on the same page but are getting hung up on semantics.

Here are some statements that I think all will agree are true:

1. "The purpose of a downshift is to put the engine in the proper rpm range for the future, whether the upcoming corner, hill or to pass." (Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch)

2. "The engine is not a brake! It's supposed to increase the speed of the machine-not decrease it. At any place where you have to use the brakes and downshif at the same time, it is not efficient or correct to use the engine to slow you...The purpose of downshifting is to bring the engine into the right RPM range to accelerate out of a turn. (A Twist of the Wrist, Keith Cole."

3. Engine braking is a often undesirable outcome of downshifting. Evidence the big bucks rage teams put into having slipper clutches on their bikes.

4. Pulling in the clutch and waiting to downshift till you are stopped is not advised since you will be unable to quickly accelerate if an emergency occurs.

5. Forgoing engine braking on the street by pulling in the clutch while braking is not bad if you are downshifting into the correct gear for the speed so that you are able to accelerate if needed.

Make sense?

 

[Aufitt]

I think ive just found why there are so many 'gear position indicator' threads from new riders.

And is a 'stick' a manual car?

 

[sendler]

Better

OK, I think we're probably all on the same page but are getting hung up on semantics.

Here are some statements that I think all will agree are true:
Make sense?

Very good post. That is much more reasonable than a blanket statement saying that revving the engine rrr, rrr, rrr, rrrrr through each gear, up to a light that you know will be red when you get there, is safer than operating the shifter with the same gear selection as that, but just not letting out the clutch each time.

 

[Aufitt]

Very good post. That is much more reasonable than a blanket statement saying that revving the engine rrr, rrr, rrr, rrrrr through each gear, up to a light that you know will be red when you get there, is safer than operating the shifter with the same gear selection as that, but just not letting out the clutch each time.

All to complicated for its own good.,, I'm Australian lol.

Just match the revs.. like 99.99% of all motorcyclists do and have done for the past 100 yrs.

 

[Luke]

Coasting is bad.. you've lost control and traction of the motorcycle.

I have to disagree.... You lose control of a motorcycle when forces overwhelm the ability of the tires to maintain traction. If coasting is losing control, then you lose control everytime the throttle is neutral.

Brakes are (a lot) cheaper than drivetrains. If I'm approaching a stop, clutch comes in when I come out of the throttle. As the bike slows, I downshift through the gears at reasonable intervals, but rarely engage the clutch unless i need to accelerate for some reason. Note that this method also requires very little braking if done correctly, although if cars are behind me I will carry more speed in and have to brake more.

I do the same thing with vehicles - sold my 99' F250 six-speed with 160k miles on the clutch and no problems, even though they rarely last past 100k according to the dealer.

Now if you're talking about coasting down a steep hill or on a mountain road descent, I'm with Aufitt. However, my method for normal stops on reasonably level ground routinely nets me 75mpg+ and hopefully a long time between chain / gearbox / engine problems.

 

[remusrm]

OK, I think we're probably all on the same page but are getting hung up on semantics.

Here are some statements that I think all will agree are true:

1. "The purpose of a downshift is to put the engine in the proper rpm range for the future, whether the upcoming corner, hill or to pass." (Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch)

2. "The engine is not a brake! It's supposed to increase the speed of the machine-not decrease it. At any place where you have to use the brakes and downshif at the same time, it is not efficient or correct to use the engine to slow you...The purpose of downshifting is to bring the engine into the right RPM range to accelerate out of a turn. (A Twist of the Wrist, Keith Cole."

3. Engine braking is a often undesirable outcome of downshifting. Evidence the big bucks rage teams put into having slipper clutches on their bikes.

4. Pulling in the clutch and waiting to downshift till you are stopped is not advised since you will be unable to quickly accelerate if an emergency occurs.

5. Forgoing engine braking on the street by pulling in the clutch while braking is not bad if you are downshifting into the correct gear for the speed so that you are able to accelerate if needed.

Make sense?

This is so true, and being arrogant at my course I said I know better, but found out they were all right, but I do agree with some, the transmission is rather iffy at times especially in 1N2 positions.

At times I can not get it out of N without releasing the clutch or revving, and the weird thing that happen today was the I was in N and revved it slipped into 1 and I stalled.

 

[remusrm]

I have to disagree.... You lose control of a motorcycle when forces overwhelm the ability of the tires to maintain traction. If coasting is losing control, then you lose control everytime the throttle is neutral.

Brakes are (a lot) cheaper than drivetrains. If I'm approaching a stop, clutch comes in when I come out of the throttle. As the bike slows, I downshift through the gears at reasonable intervals, but rarely engage the clutch unless i need to accelerate for some reason. Note that this method also requires very little braking if done correctly, although if cars are behind me I will carry more speed in and have to brake more.

I do the same thing with vehicles - sold my 99' F250 six-speed with 160k miles on the clutch and no problems, even though they rarely last past 100k according to the dealer.

Now if you're talking about coasting down a steep hill or on a mountain road descent, I'm with Aufitt. However, my method for normal stops on reasonably level ground routinely nets me 75mpg+ and hopefully a long time between chain / gearbox / engine problems.

I do the same, and engine braking is not good at all in my opinion.

 

[thirdechelon]

Our instructor told us when coming to a stop; off throttle, full clutch and shift down lever as many times till you get to first. Engine braking wasn't even covered in the learners test. It was a small course using 1st 2nd and 3rd gears.

I use engine braking on slow down now only cause of what I've read on the Internet. The purpose it gives for me anyways is just to slow the bike down anywhere between top-speed and down to around 35km/h. Now under 35km/h first or second gear the engine braking is more harsh, at these speeds feathering the clutch and rear brake is more appropriate, for me anyways.