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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Question: why do you have to blip the throttle when downshifting?

I currently own a harley sportster 1200 and am selling it to get a cbr250r. I have been riding for a year and also drive a stick shift in my car (always have). When I am driving my car or riding on my bike and I am downshifting I just wait to downshift until its within the proper range. For example, if Im going 60mph and coming up to a stop light I will hit the brakes and when I hit 40mph I will down shift to 4th and then 3rd at 30mph and 2nd at 20 mph. Doing this does slow down the bike and car more, so why blip the throttle to downshift? Is it just so you can down shift earlier without kicking the bike?
 

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Yes. It allows you to match revs and slow the bike down faster by using the engine as a brake. It also allows you to stay in the power band at any given speed. If you just let the bike slow down then shift, you are not allowing yourself the ability to get on the gas and accelerate quickly if need be. An easy way to figure out how many revs you need to rev match, is to watch how many revs the engine drops when you shift up. Just an example, I'm not sure of the real numbers without riding but if you were to shift from 3rd to 4th and your revs would drop by say 1200 rpm then in order to shift back to 3rd from 4th at any rpm you would have to blip the throttle to 1200rpm more to make a seemles shift.
 

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In my opinion people love to hear themselves talk about proper shifting technique but actual useful advice is few and far between. If you are operating it smoothly and don't need to replace your clutch ever 1000 miles, you are probably fine. Do what you think is best and smoothest for yourself.
 

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Agree with Deanohh... if you're doing it smoothly, you're probably doing it right. You may not even realize you're doing anything "special."

Blips are only necessary if you need to change the RPM quicker than it would rise at the current throttle input level. You can over-shoot a rev match pretty easily with an overzealous "blip".

Rev matched downshifts are necessary so as to not cause excessive surges of braking force at the rear tire, which can unsettle the rider and bike.

You don't want to be "dragging the engine back up to speed" by "dumping the clutch" or "slipping". You want the engine to advance to the speed that the next gear down will engaged at.

Clutch, Rev match[1], shift/clutch, roll off. Repeat if necessary.

It happens so quicky, it's all one motion.

[1] Rev matching can include a blip or not. It all depends on the specific situation at the time of application. I.E. for a 3->2 change to happen at the same speed as perhaps the 4->3 change (depends, were you under power in 4 before the downchange to 3? -again, it is situational). Reason being, if you were under power in 4th, and made a decision to downchange, you could easily match with little if any input change on the throttle. But, after the roll-off back to idle position through 3, you no longer have a condition where the engine will accelerate simply by pulling in the clutch. To rev match, you will have to add power between the time you pull in the clutch and before you let it out. The 3->2 change is a much bigger jump in gear ratio than any of the higher gears. To make it happen in the same time (more RPM range to cover to split the gap) a blip, rather than a gradual roll on of the throttle, is more expedient.

I don't care one way or another if people "blip" or coast or rev match their own way, or what... but I sure do grit my teeth when I see people use the clutch as a brake- and that's NOT what engine braking is... Again, such a method will either add unnecessary wear to the engine (slipping-drag-up), or cause such a such a sudden surge in rear wheel braking force (dump-drag-up) to possibly unsettle the bike.

And engine is an air pump that can either drive a load (fuel/spark, pushing the bike) or be driven by an outside force (bike momentum). It is an effective brake because when you roll off the throttle, no more fuel is used, the throttle butterfly closes, and then the engine is drawing against resistance, building a vacuum. None of this wears the engine significantly differently than when fuel is applied and the "pump" is pushing the load instead of being driven by it.

Yes, Keith Code says brakes are cheaper than engines. They are. Your call, I'm just saying to those who may be doing it- do it right, for your own safety and the longevity of the bike. If not, you're better off coasting down w/ brakes.

[insert obligatory forest gump quote here] :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong the way I was doing it, nice and smooth slow down, just have to watch the mph to make sure I match with the right gear. I think in many cases people just like blipping the throttle so they can make more noise. Using the engine as a break is much needed when you have a 600 pound bike, that why Im getting rid of it. Cant wait to get my 250. Harley's are good bikes, but just to heavy for a 135 pounder.
 

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Using the engine as a break is much needed when you have a 600 pound bike, that why Im getting rid of it. Cant wait to get my 250.
Yes. Imagine how important it becomes when you have 80,000 lbs on wheels. Down hill. With air-actuated drum brakes. And a crash box transmission. :eek:

The CBR is a bit of a different beast, it will handle better, among other things. :) If you're even barely considering getting one, you'll definitely be glad if you do.

Harley's are good bikes
I'll fine with anyone riding what they want, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that statement. :D

but just to heavy for a 135 pounder.
Ride Like A Pro. Get some. Beg/borrow/steal a copy. The concepts apply to any bike, but are most well suited to big heavy slow underpowered paint shakers. Oops, did I say that out loud? :eek:

Good luck whatever route you take! :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
TX_DJ- a lot of people don't like Harley's and thats ok, but people can only talk bad about them if they have ridden one, if not then they have no place. Im not saying this is your case, Im just saying in general.

And a harley sportster 1200 is not slow by any means, its slow compared to a Honda CBR 600RR but they are very fast. I rode a modified ninja 250 (pipe, jets) and my harley is faster (in a straight line).

So, yes I agree that Harley's are not the best bikes, but I don't think they are as bad as some people think they are. They just need to lighten them up, and some pressure relief valves and lower the price a bit. Other than that they are beautiful bikes with good sound, except for when the stock pipes are replaced with obnoxiously loud pipes.
 

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Im just saying in general.

...

I rode a modified ninja 250 (pipe, jets) and my harley is faster (in a straight line).
In general, you're correct.

I've never found one that I liked well enough to buy, even at half blue book. Believe me, I've tried.

Your harley also has like 8 times as much torque as a ninja 250. You have to have enough torque to move the mass. If you do that, you do well. But as you already pointed out, a more efficient and nimble machines with half the displacement will leave the iron giant in the dust.

I didn't say what I did to provoke any response from you... I was just saying.

You're used to torque. The CBR has more usable torque than the Ninja 250. It won't compare to the raw muscle feel that you get when the paint shaker starts moving you, but like I was saying, a different sort of beast.

In a straight line, your HD buddies will beat you. In the twisties, you'll be at the next bar half way thru a cold one before the first of them roll in.
 

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In my opinion people love to hear themselves talk about proper shifting technique but actual useful advice is few and far between. If you are operating it smoothly and don't need to replace your clutch ever 1000 miles, you are probably fine. Do what you think is best and smoothest for yourself.
does this mean you don't know how to blip the throttle? heaven help you if you need to downshift to pass someone, or just get into the power band, and don't know how to blip the throttle! rather than give opinions about advice, try being constructive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
does this mean you don't know how to blip the throttle? heaven help you if you need to downshift to pass someone, or just get into the power band, and don't know how to blip the throttle! rather than give opinions about advice, try being constructive.
I agree with fastCBR...I have been driving a stick shift all my life and you don't have to blip the throttle to downshift. When you down shift to pass a car you just get hard on the throttle to match the higher RPM's. When slowing down if you down shift into the correct gear at the correct speed you dont have to blip the throttle. Blipping the throttle while slowing down only makes it so you can get into a lower gear at a higher speed instead of waiting for the for a slower speed to downshift.

Sounds like you don't what you'r talking about
 

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Sounds like you don't what you'r talking about
I know you weren't quoting me, but go back and read what I wrote.

I can draw a picture, if that's helpful.
 

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I wind up downshifting from 6th to 2nd to make a sharp corner followed by a steep hill to get up onto the bench that our subdivision is located upon. So I do this frequently.

6th to 5th, no blip needed; 5th to 4th maybe a tiny blip; 4th to 3rd yes a blip is needed; 3rd to 2nd a good blip is needed. I make the corner at ~50% of redline in 2nd gear and accelerate up the slope until 75+% of redline before shifting into 3rd as I near the top of the steep slope.

The lower gears have bigger separations in engine revs and that's were the blip is needed.
 
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