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Its a miracle that anyone ever buys one of these useless pieces of crap. Everything in the world must be perfect all the time...no exceptions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Agreed... I'll add that any engine, whether air cooled or liquid cooled, carbureted or EFI, should ALWAYS be given a short warm up period to allow the internal parts to heat and expand, before the motor is subjected to loading at RPM. Short changing you engine warm up time, to pinch a few pennies worth of fuel is just plain dumb. Sorry, but I have to call it like I see it. Still its your engine, treat it as you see fit.

Would you think that Formula One team's just fire up one of those engines and head out onto the track, and immediately put down hot laps, just because it has EFI, liquid cooling and engine management computers? Not a chance. They have a very specific engine start up protocol, including heat cycles, and stepped RPM cycling prior to warm up laps. Only then is the engine deemed ready to unleash its 975 HP.
I don't think any of us consider the CBR250R a Formula One machine, or freshly rebuild our engines before every race/drive, or consistently rev to 16,000 rpms and pull 1000+ horsepower, so I don't think this analogy is applicable, nor have I ever considered my actions dumb. Sure, we'd all agree that allowing an engine to warm up to full operating temperature before any rise above idle would be ideal. But I'm also sure you don't do that for your bike for every ride, or let your car warm for 20 minutes for every drive now do you? If you do, I'd suggest otherwise, because more than likely you're going to foul your cat with soot from the consistent rich idle mixture collecting in your headers and not getting blown out by driving. Seen it many times before, and cats are more expensive than gas.

The small, miniscule amount of wear prevented is pretty much negligible as long as you ride your bike easily until it warms up. It only takes about 5-10 seconds for the oil pump to fully circulate oil to all the moving parts, including the cams, unless you're running jello in the crankcase. And if you run synthetic, and drive it nearly daily as in my case, the synthetic oil forms a nice film over all moving parts and helps to prevent dry starts. Check any clean MPG forum or test, they say to not let your vehicle idle. The RPM's are high, and the mixture is rich, and while idling, you're just wasting fuel. While driving, it warms the engine up much faster and you're actually contributing that energy that would be wasted during warmup to your commute. So there's no paradox here; idling to warm up uses more fuel than just driving it. And I never said to start it up and IMMEDIATELY flog the crap out of it. THAT would be dumb. Just drive it easy until it's warm. It's not tuned aggressively or a performance machine; it is a common market amateur's bike and when proper maintenance is followed, should be able to turn and burn. We're not talking about the space shuttle here.

But we digress. I don't think it's an issue to happen on the rare occasion, I just think a 1 in 10 chance is a little high. My car is fuel injected, and it never cuts out on throttle crack from a cold start, so neither should this bike. I never expected it to be perfect, and neither should anyone else, especially this early in its life, but I do expect it to start first thing and be ready to go without croaking out. I started this thread just to see if this was commonly experienced occasionally by other riders, not to have my intelligence directly insulted. I've been under hoods and bikes since I was 7, and from all 600,000 miles I've put on my vehicles I've yet to have an engine related problem. Not to mention all this has nothing to do with the engine cutting out. So I suggest we keep the topic focused on what it was created for and not nitpicking people's startup procedures. It should NEVER cut out on first start; period. Unless there is something seriously wrong with the engine management, and I think we'd all know it if there was.
 

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This has only happened to me once, I am pretty sure it was my own fault since I tried to start going as soon as I fired it up. Now I just wait a few seconds and have not had a problem since.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
That seems to be the consensus. I believe my issue was only magnified due to the fact that I believe my injector was dirty. I think it was just a culmination of unique situations in my case of racing fuel stored in the bike over winter with low miles.
 

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I don't think any of us consider the CBR250R a Formula One machine, or freshly rebuild our engines before every race/drive, or consistently rev to 16,000 rpms and pull 1000+ horsepower, so I don't think this analogy is applicable, nor have I ever considered my actions dumb.
My point was this... The fact that an engine has EFI, liquid cooling, etc., doesn't mean that you can turn the key, hit the start button and your good to go. My reference to an F1 car, was not intended to be literal. As to the "dumb" statement, it was not intended to be taken personally by you or anyone else. If you took it as such, thats your choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
My point was this... The fact that an engine has EFI, liquid cooling, etc., doesn't mean that you can turn the key, hit the start button and your good to go. My reference to an F1 car, was not intended to be literal. As to the "dumb" statement, it was not intended to be taken personally by you or anyone else. If you took it as such, thats your choice.
Well, the point of the bike's setup is to be point-and-shoot, per se. It is designed to be ready to go from the start. What I'm trying to get at is there should be no stumble; every instance of lean or rich, choke position, throttle position, engine temp; it's all accounted for in the engine management monitoring. So it shouldn't cut off unless something physical is happening, or ignition, fuel pump, etc. If it runs fine at all other instances, it's quite the mystery, hints my initial confusion about the situation.

And no, I didn't take it personally. I'm quite the passive person and don't intend to instigate harshness. :D But just because someone doesn't idle their engine to operating temperature before riding off doesn't automatically constitute them, or the action, as being "dumb". When ridden easily, it helps to warm it faster and is more fuel efficient. Being as poor as I am, I pinch every penny. Problem is, with a bike this fun to ride, I'm sure it's hard for people to keep the right hand out of it for a few minutes while it warms...:eek:
 

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So I've seen a few people with issues similar to mine, but not exactly the same. When I go out to my bike in the morning, it starts up no problem. Occasionally, it will randomly just die. I will then have to start it again and it's fine. Sometimes as well, it will start and idle fine (this is the majority of the time), but when I go to take off it hiccups and sometimes stalls. So now, I usually blip the throttle as soon as I get it started, and I can feel the initial desire to choke out, but then it revs fine after that initial throttle blip. This as I said is a cold start from sitting overnight, so it's not vapor lock. This thing is fuel injected and has an automatic choke. I'm wondering if the choke is not closing fully? This also didn't seem to be such an issue during the colder months, so I'm again wondering about the choke not fully enriching the mixture and coupled with the warmer, leaner temperatures, I'm getting a stall. I'm also running BP fuel, and have tried several different gas stations all to the same result, so it's not the gas. Has anyone else experienced this on their first cold starts and having to blip the throttle?

i had that problem when i got my baby back in december. mentioned it to a biker friend of mine and he pointed out it might be fuel starvation. since the bike is parked (on the stand) at a slanting angle. so all you need to do is straight the bike (handle bar at center), let the buzz check complete and press start. worked ever since. never cuts out even on cold mornings (tropical mornings). give it a go... see if it works on yours. good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Wouldn't that only affect it if the bike was near empty? It's done it with a full tank before. Thanks for the input!
 

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Had this is another thread, But I had this exact operation on my bike but after the 600 mile service by the dealer the stall/die out on a cold start was gone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Just did it again this morning. Started the bike in neutral, ruling out any possibility of load, and didn't even touch the throttle. Gurgled for about 3 seconds and choked out. Started up again immediately just fine. Going to run one more tankful with quite a bit of B12 in it before I jump to conclusions, but it's still a bit flustering.
 

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Mines at around 1800km and its just started doing this occasionally, the first time I assumed I'd started up too soon, but this morning I fired it up and it idled rough for a few seconds and then died... tried again and she ran perfectly.

Distressing.
 

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So I've seen a few people with issues similar to mine, but not exactly the same. When I go out to my bike in the morning, it starts up no problem. Occasionally, it will randomly just die. I will then have to start it again and it's fine. Sometimes as well, it will start and idle fine (this is the majority of the time), but when I go to take off it hiccups and sometimes stalls. So now, I usually blip the throttle as soon as I get it started, and I can feel the initial desire to choke out, but then it revs fine after that initial throttle blip. This as I said is a cold start from sitting overnight, so it's not vapor lock. This thing is fuel injected and has an automatic choke. I'm wondering if the choke is not closing fully? This also didn't seem to be such an issue during the colder months, so I'm again wondering about the choke not fully enriching the mixture and coupled with the warmer, leaner temperatures, I'm getting a stall. I'm also running BP fuel, and have tried several different gas stations all to the same result, so it's not the gas. Has anyone else experienced this on their first cold starts and having to blip the throttle?

These bikes use an idle air control valve inside the throttle body to adjust idle speed, not a choke. I read all 4 pages of this thread and everything you mention points to the IACV not acting correctly on initial start up. It's either gummed up from the race gas, or just needs to be reset and readapted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Yes, thanks powerlet, I meant to say IACV, I'm just used to saying choke from my old bike. I've checked the IACV, and it is fine, but I cleaned it anyway with carb cleaner.

As an update to the situation, I recently installed a slip on exhaust system, and before the computer learned under the new A/F ratio, the bike really stuttered on first start when I cracked the throttle. This issue is DEFINITELY caused by an immediate lean condition on start up, and you can hear it pronounced when you add a slip-on. Like I said, if yours is doing this, check the IACV, run some B12 through, and 9 times out of 10 the bike will have no problems. I'm not too overly concerned about that one out of ten; I guess the bike is just a little slow to adjust on first start.
 

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I bought my bike last week, and this happened several times. I was very disappointed until I read this thread, and today I took the advice on this thread and today the bike was fine! Here's what I did differently:
1) I waited until all the buzzing and whirring stopped after turning the key to "on" before I pressed the start button.
2) I turned the key to on while the bike was in a straight up and down position, with me sitting on it. Previously I started it (or tried to) as the bike was still leaned over on the kickstand.

I guess I can add a 3rd thing, and that is I waited about 30 seconds or so after hitting the ignition before I put it in gear. During this time the engine revved from about 1200 rpm up to 1500 rpm.

So, doing these three things the bike has started, and run great. Thanks for the great posts, I am glad I read this so early in the ownership of my bike.
 

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I still get it every once and a while, but it's comforting to know it's not just me. It's been less frequent since the 600 mile service, but not completely gone.
 

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Mine has done this on at least the last 6 cold starts; without fail; everytime. Last night I started it from cold rode about 6km, came to a stoplight, and when I cracked the throttle to start moving the engine back-fired and the engine stopped. Well, honestly, I'm not sure if it back fired, or if it combusted in the exhaust system (yes, that happens on engines sometimes, people) but it was a fairly deep throated little "POP" sound and the engine quit immediately. It fired right back up when I hit the starter.

As for the guy who said "it warms up your engine faster" that is the LAST thing you want to do. In a perfect world your engine should be warmed up as slowly as possible; but unfortunately it's not practical to hook up some device to warm it up gradually over maybe half an hour, or more. So we have to compromise. But it needs to be said again: ANY RAPID CHANGE IN ENGINE TEMPERATURE IS BAD FOR AN ENGINE. Whether it be from cold to hot or vice versa. It would be nice if our oil could be warm on the initial start so it's flowing nicely while the engine is cool, but again, not really practical; so we have to balance warming up the oil quickly with warming up the engine slowly. Simply put: start the engine with it at as low an RPM as possible and let the engine warm up gradually while not letting it idle for too long.
 

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As for the guy who said "it warms up your engine faster" that is the LAST thing you want to do. In a perfect world your engine should be warmed up as slowly as possible; but unfortunately it's not practical to hook up some device to warm it up gradually over maybe half an hour, or more. So we have to compromise. But it needs to be said again: ANY RAPID CHANGE IN ENGINE TEMPERATURE IS BAD FOR AN ENGINE. Whether it be from cold to hot or vice versa. It would be nice if our oil could be warm on the initial start so it's flowing nicely while the engine is cool, but again, not really practical; so we have to balance warming up the oil quickly with warming up the engine slowly. Simply put: start the engine with it at as low an RPM as possible and let the engine warm up gradually while not letting it idle for too long.

Sorry, I have to disagree with this.

Cold engines produce more emissions, are less efficient, and burn more fuel. Start the engine, let it idle just long enough for oil pressure to rise and to stabilize the idle, and GENTLY drive away until it is up to normal temperature.

Our oils are multi-viscosity, they are designed to flow correctly (i.e. the right flow rate for a given oil pressure) at any engine temperature, even cold.

An idling engine and a stopped vehicle, regardless of its warmth, generates ZERO MPG, which contributes to your tank average, if you are so inclined to care about such.

My routine in the morning is this:
Open the garage.
Put on my jacket.
Stow my ball cap.
Put on my helmet.
Put the key in the ignition, start the bike.
Put my gloves on.
Back the bike out of the driveway, and press the garage opener button.
Drive away slowly, low speed and low rpm, no WOT.
By the time I'm two blocks away from home, the engine is up to normal temp.
Ride it like I stole it.
 
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