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Discussion Starter #1
ive heard about other people having trouble with dealers not doing the full service to the bike.
i kinda assume that since i got the bike really late in the model year that my dealer has sorted all this out by now, but how would i be sure that they did everything needed for the service?
I would probably need pictures of screw locations to mark because i really dont know what im looking at very well as far as engine parts go. definitly not by name anyhow.
 

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I'd go by price/instructions. If they tell you they have to keep the bike overnight so it can be cold when they work on it, they're doing the right thing. If they only charge you 100 bucks(assuming you didn't get the service plan), they aren't doing the right things. Generally though, if you tell them to do something, they'll do it, it's your dime in the end anyway.
 

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I drop mine off in the morning to do my first service. I didn't even ask them what to do. I told them what I needed based on the schedule. I'm not sure how you can be sure they did what they said but if you don't trust them at least a little, they probably shouldn't be your dealer.
 

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I thought it was mostly an inspection and an oil change.

according to the manual theyre supposed to check:

-valve clearence
-engine idle speed
-brakes system
-clutch system
-nuts, bolts, fasteners
-steering head bearings
-chain maintenance

should be covered if you got the warranty plan, if not the 1st year warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I listened to the engine on my way home, but it didn't seem necessary because the bike felt much more lively than before. maybe its just placebo effect combined with not wearing my backpack for the first time in 2 weeks (roughly 90% of my riding).
I'll definitely be paying attention to it on my way to work tomorrow anyway just in case i missed something during the joy of getting my bike back this morning.
according to the sheet that the dealer gave me basically after checking everything all they did was lube/adjust the chain, and change the oil/filter.

actually come to think of it i also changed to premium gasoline for this tank (on the way to the service center) because i was curious about the difference from having 10% ethanol to 0%. i guess i didn't do a very scientific test since i changed too many factors and im just going by the "seat of my pants" type of measurement...
 

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The only bolts I can think of to mark is the bolts that hold the radiator in place. They pretty much have to remove that to get to the cylinder head to check the valve clearance. The valve clearance is really what you are paying for. The other two things you can mark are the Timing hole caps on the side of your bike. I cant see how they could check your shims without opening these.

Any shmuck can do an oil change in 30 min for $20 of parts.

If they don't change your shims, I doubt you will hear any difference as there is nothing to really change except maybe tighten your chain or loose bolts.

Honestly, if you are tool savey, do it yourself. There is a temp manual on the .org forums that takes you step by step on how to check your valves. It should also show you the locations of all the things I mentioned above.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
when i got it back they very obviously had cleaned and waxed/lubed the chain, its got a thin layer of sticky grey on it now. i think they made it extreamly loose though, when i checked the play it seemed like 1.25 inches to me. (not an extremely accurate ruler...) but it looked like they actually loosened it more than it was when i had dropped it off.
I dont really trust myself to work on my brand new engine yet. i dont remember exactly what the service checklist they gave me said, but it looked right to me.
i think if i can fit one of my wrenches on the wheel nut ill be tightening the chain up in the next few days.
 

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when i got it back they very obviously had cleaned and waxed/lubed the chain, its got a thin layer of sticky grey on it now. i think they made it extreamly loose though, when i checked the play it seemed like 1.25 inches to me. (not an extremely accurate ruler...) but it looked like they actually loosened it more than it was when i had dropped it off.
I dont really trust myself to work on my brand new engine yet. i dont remember exactly what the service checklist they gave me said, but it looked right to me.
i think if i can fit one of my wrenches on the wheel nut ill be tightening the chain up in the next few days.
I have a "loose chain" thread going in the general discussion forum which may be of some benefit to you. Bottom line seems to be that top end of the spec may be appropriate.
 

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I dont really know what or why Pete that you think being at the top end of the spec adjustment is more appropriate than the lower end other than to justify yours being at or over the top end of the spec....[13/16 to 1 3/16 is the appropriate chain measurement range] if you start at the maximum range..the tiniest bit your chain stretches instantly puts you over the maximum spec.
I am not being an a$$ dude....so I apologize if I come off that way..but I have read or seen nothing to support that statement..to the contrary..your chain is already over the end of the maximum allowed slack once it it reaches one and one quarter inches of slack.

The manual does state not to even ride at all if you reach 2" of slack because of safety issues, but you are at the very maximum chain slack at 1 3/16"
It seemed to me the general Consensus was in other threads, (with the exception of a couple digressers), that the minimum chain slack -if anywhere-is where you should be starting at..i say for all those on each side of the room...just split the difference and meet in the middle...which would be at exactly one inch of chain slack. You simply measure by placing a ruler or tape measure in the middle between the front and rear sprockets then push up on the bottom of the chain till it goes no higher....
 

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according to the sheet that the dealer gave me basically after checking everything all they did was lube/adjust the chain, and change the oil/filter.
Are you sure they checked the valve clearances? If it doesn't say it on your invoice, they didn't do it. And this is actually a rather important step. It doesn't matter how the bike sounds. Out-of-spec valve clearances don't necessarily make a funny sound. (Or at all?)

Some people get lucky and their clearances are exactly within spec and thus don't have to pay for the extra time and materials to have them adjusted. Most are not that lucky. I honestly don't know what happens if the valve clearances go significantly out of whack for long periods of time (shortened engine life? poor performance?), but clearly Honda means for you to keep them in spec or they wouldn't have put it in the owner's manual. Lots of dealers have been deliberately skipping this important step because it can take lots of extra time for not as much extra money.
 

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I honestly don't know what happens if the valve clearances go significantly out of whack for long periods of time (shortened engine life? poor performance?), but clearly Honda means for you to keep them in spec or they wouldn't have put it in the owner's manual. Lots of dealers have been deliberately skipping this important step because it can take lots of extra time for not as much extra money.
My experience comes from Volkswagen beetle engines and Honda Civics. So, for what its' worth...

The valve clearance is necessary to ensure that the valves are fully closed during compression and combustion. The clearance changes as the parts of the engine expand and contract with heat. If the clearance should ever become less than 0.000" the valve will leak and this can cause a lack of power. Far worse though is that the valves, and especially the exhaust valves, are cooled by being in contact with the valve seats that are in the head itself. If they don't close completely, they overheat and burn. Intake valves are less prone to burning.

If the valves get damaged, they can be refaced or replaced. If the valve seats get damaged they might possibly be refaced but more likely the head would need to be replaced. It would probably be better to get a new one unless you can be sure the face angles and widths are done well.

If there is too much clearance, the valve action will be noisy but I am not aware of any particular damage that might occur. The valve timing and lift are affected by the clearance. It used to be popular to run beetle valves with low clearance to 'get more power'.

All that said, I am a bit surprised at the amount of clearance specified as engines with such short valve trains don't really have a lot of parts to expand unlike the old push rod engines.

So, I guess the rule of thumb might be that too much clearance is better than too little.
 

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All that said, I am a bit surprised at the amount of clearance specified as engines with such short valve trains don't really have a lot of parts to expand unlike the old push rod engines.
Maybe to do with the cam follower rollers (or whatever they're called)? Anyway, great info.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Are you sure they checked the valve clearances? If it doesn't say it on your invoice, they didn't do it. And this is actually a rather important step. It doesn't matter how the bike sounds. Out-of-spec valve clearances don't necessarily make a funny sound. (Or at all?)
they gave me a check sheet, some things were checked off as no or n/a, but most things were checked off as yes, some things (like the chain) were checked as adjusted. brakes were given a measurement and a %.

i dont remember what the list of things was but if i remember when i get home ill find it and post it.
 
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