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Discussion Starter #1
This is strictly a gear research question. The value of this thread is exclusively set by the experience(s) gear owners are willing to share.

Gear is expensive, or it can be cheap. One will say "you get what you pay for" while another will say "I was able to score [this or that] for way less."

On average though, we'll end up buying gear straight up from either a dealer or online supplier because "waiting for it to go on sale" when we already have the money is putting ourselves further at risk by not having the gear we need for better protection.

Let's say we were to classify gear and the protection it provides as follows: Budget, Adequate, Best, Vanity.

For the purposes of this exercise, let's also say that gear options in the Vanity category really offer the same protection as that in the Best category, but are for those that have the extra money and want to look good.

In each category, how much should one expect to spend to properly "gear up?" Gear pricing should include: full face helmet, gloves, jacket, pants, boots, and/or options (i.e. spine protector, EVS Comp Jacket, etc).

For starters, it seems I would put Motorport's kevlar gear in the "Best" category but there you're also talking some $400 for the Jacket, then $400 for the Pants. At the same time, however, you could pick up some $20 motorcycle knee pads, put them over your jeans, and call it good (this might go in the adequate category).
 

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At the same time, however, you could pick up some $20 motorcycle knee pads, put them over your jeans, and call it good (this might go in the adequate category).
I have road rash all up my right leg. Get pants.

Helmet ~$70 and up depending on what you want
Jacket ~$150 is what most of mine cost
Gloves ~$80 is pretty much standard for short cuff and they go up
Pants ~$150 but it all depends on the seller
Boots ~$50 and up
Spine protector ~$80 and up
 

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Already lots of existing threads in this forum discussing riding gear in terms of price point vs. level of protection.

What you can expect for your money when buying 'head to toe' protective gear:

$500 might buy the bare minimum in lower quality gear.

$1000 - $1200 will get you high quality, brand name gear if you shop around and find some closeout deals on last years stuff (this is what I did, spending just over a grand for a Shoei Qwest helmet & Alpinestars apparel: perforated leather jacket, 2 pair of pants, 2 pair of gloves & SMX boots).

$2000+ will buy "top shelf" stuff from brand name manufacturers at full retail prices.



$20 knee pads over jeans as adequate? No.
 

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<$300 if you know where to shop.

Scorpion jacket, scorpion gloves, IV2 DOT helmet, Detour armored textile pants = ~$260. All these hold up very well in an accident considering.

Boots can be had for around $100 for comfortable shoes. That's one place you don't want to skimp on comfort.
 

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I started with:
Duke helmet - $90
Icon gloves - $30
Some kind of textile jacket - $110
Workboots - $30
And I wore/wear jeans.

I'd say this setup is very budget friendly.
Since then I've purchased a nicer helmet and jacket. And I wear the same gloves, street shoes and jeans. And I'm still in the budget category.
I guess that also puts me in the "most of the gear, all the time" category as well...so I probably don't qualify for adequate.
 

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You do get what you pay for, but the difference isn't in crash protection, with the possible exception of pants and jackets that have impact protection (gel or whatever) for knees or elbows included.

You pay for reduced weight, increased airflow, comfort, noise, quality, style...stuff like that. It's not vanity per se, but It has a lot to do with climate, their habbits, etc.

Me for example, I have a cheap helmet (I think it was like $70 or $80) since I'm mostly commuting to work, the grocery store, etc, and it's not worth it to be to save the neck strain and noise for a half hour trip.
I do have some rather expensive jean and khaki pants that offer real protection (read: CE approved) since I like the protection and don't want to look like a goof ball showing up at work in leather pants.

FWIW I don't think people understand how little protection is offered by jeans. It's 'something', in the same sense that a nice sweater is something as a jacket, or a beanie cap is 'something' as a helmet. Most people who've been down with road rash, etc (Myself included) experience most of it on the hips, knees, elbows, and lower back, which, unless you have a jacket that zips into lowers o
 

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There's two aspects to protective gear - impact absorption and abrasion resistance (i.e avoiding road rash). I think the above posts are mostly talking about abrasion, other than with respect to a helmet. For abrasion, there is really no substitute for good leather - see below for one well performed test to compare the materials. (I don't know what a "revolution" is in this test, but the comparison is helpful.) Jeans will only slide a matter of feet before you are sliding on skin. Kevlar and tex gets you maybe into yards. If you crash at anything above 25 MPH, good 1.3-1.4 mm full grain leather is the only thing that will protect you. Unfortunately, I know this from experience.
 

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^I would disagree with that. Textile gear has come a long way. It's not at the same level as leather yet but it's getting closer. May I ask where the 25mph number comes from? The ADAC has done tests with textiles and some protected well even above 60mph.
 

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There's two aspects to protective gear - impact absorption and abrasion resistance (i.e avoiding road rash). I think the above posts are mostly talking about abrasion, other than with respect to a helmet. For abrasion, there is really no substitute for good leather - see below for one well performed test to compare the materials. (I don't know what a "revolution" is in this test, but the comparison is helpful.) Jeans will only slide a matter of feet before you are sliding on skin. Kevlar and tex gets you maybe into yards. If you crash at anything above 25 MPH, good 1.3-1.4 mm full grain leather is the only thing that will protect you. Unfortunately, I know this from experience.
^I would disagree with that. Textile gear has come a long way. It's not at the same level as leather yet but it's getting closer. May I ask where the 25mph number comes from? The ADAC has done tests with textiles and some protected well even above 60mph.
Indeed, textile has come a long way. In fact, the Cordura 1000 actually surpasses most competition leather gear in terms of both abrasion resistance and tear resistance.
 

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You won't convince me that textile fabric jackets or pants are anywhere close to the same level of abrasion protection as what quality, full grain leathers provide. Maybe if/when race tracks allow riders with textile gear on track I'll believe it.

I think Isaacm12 had some 'after' crash pic's of his textile jacket... as I recall the jacket itself didn't fair too well, and left him with some pretty nasty road rash.
 

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It's a question of what you have. Is it heavy textile jacket or just some light summer jacket from a motorcycle shop. I've got two jackets. One is very heavy and has armor on the back, elbows and shoulders with thick fabric that looks as if it can take a beating. The second jacket was a gift from an elderly rider whom I met randomly when disposing of glass at a recycling container. That guy just approached me and asked whether I know someone who rides a motorcycle and I said I do myself. Then he gave me the jacket and told me he couldn't use it anymore as he had developed arthritis and couldn't ride anymore. Well, that jacket is very light with no armor and looks like it wouldn't protect me much. I never considered to really use it myself and just keep it as an emergency gap filler in case someone else would like to take a ride with me (which is never gonna happen anyway...) or the other jacket wouldn't be available for whatever reason. To make a long story short there are lots of different qualities of textile jackets and pants out there.

Funny thing is I tried to find that test again but I could only dig up one from 2007 which definitely doesn't show textile to be that good. But that was 2007. You are of course right that leather is still better when it comes to abrasion but textile is not as useless as some "leather fetishists"(>:)) try to make it.
It's really strange how few real tests are available on the net.:confused:
 

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You won't convince me that textile fabric jackets or pants are anywhere close to the same level of abrasion protection as what quality, full grain leathers provide. Maybe if/when race tracks allow riders with textile gear on track I'll believe it.

I think Isaacm12 had some 'after' crash pic's of his textile jacket... as I recall the jacket itself didn't fair too well, and left him with some pretty nasty road rash.
We have no idea what it was made of, how old it was, etc. As you say, not all brands are created equal. ;) We have no idea how a leather jacket would have fared in the exact same situation. Actually, IIRC, the majority of the rash was on his hands from his Icon "full grain leather" gloves....>:)

On a track, conditions are very different than the street. Cordura is very abrasion resistant, while at the same time being very lightweight and washable. The majority of textile jackets are usually a bit inferior to leather. But, it is far from not being effective and usually is not enough to make a marked difference in an accident versus leather. That is, unless someone is traveling at such a high rate of speed that is clearly unsafe....
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You won't convince me that textile fabric jackets or pants are anywhere close to the same level of abrasion protection as what quality, full grain leathers provide. Maybe if/when race tracks allow riders with textile gear on track I'll believe it.

I think Isaacm12 had some 'after' crash pic's of his textile jacket... as I recall the jacket itself didn't fair too well, and left him with some pretty nasty road rash.
Besides leather requirement by tracks, I'm also told that depending on the fall, leather may also hold up for re-use whereas textile/mesh is more of a one-and-done deal.
 

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I'm in the same camp as MotoMike. I've gone down fast on full leathers and had nothing but a bruise. I've gone down at 25 on tex and have scars to show for it. Maybe tex is getting better, but I would need to see the studies and then hear some real life support before I trust myself to tex again. (Hence, the 25 mph statement comes from real life.)


The study I posted is a good one and shows tex lasting between 1/3rd and 1/4th as long as good leather. I'm willing to be convinced, but you'd need to show me...
 

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Maybe there is again a difference in countries and we're talking about different things. Motorcycle gear in the EU must meet certain criteria:
Under the EU Standards, material used in motorcycle protective clothing must have abrasion resistance of between 4 and 7 seconds for use over the high impact areas of the body (Zone 1 and 2). Just to put this in context, a single layer of 1.4 mm cow hide will last 5.8 seconds, while 200 gsm denim (or your standard jeans), will last just over half (0.6) of a second (SATRA, 2002).
Jackets and pants - Motorcycle Council of NSW - Road Safety
 

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Ive swung over to Alpine Stars instead of the Dainese equivalent due to dainese going downhill and Astars improving depite China vs Italy.


My $1400 Atem shits on the $2000 Trickster Evo in every regard, even weight.





I used a $600 Pakistan suit past couple yrs but the armour wasn't good (not that I tested it)
Only used the Atem once (on the R3 track day) but didn't even have to pull it down it was so comfortable, on the bike didn't even notice I was wearing anything.


Sponsors gave me this,
First non AGV for 20 yrs, fitted so good Iwent down a size to Large.
Retail was $699 plus 100 &180 for Irridium & Transition visors





You pay for what you get as far as quality and comfort and protection goes.
I could survive a holocaust.
 

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...
Gear is expensive, or it can be cheap. One will say "you get what you pay for" while another will say "I was able to score [this or that] for way less."

On average though, we'll end up buying gear straight up from either a dealer or online supplier because "waiting for it to go on sale" when we already have the money is putting ourselves further at risk by not having the gear we need for better protection
......
Why wait?
Look for last or sec. last years collection. That is on sale anyway.
You have to look for the buck, but wanna have the best for you?
Don't ever look at this years collection!
And leathers, that fit you very well and with the protection, you are looking for, how often do you buy new?
I drove one suit on 3 different bikes over a 12 year time slot. 6 helmets in that time, but only because of the aging of them.
 

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Maybe there is again a difference in countries and we're talking about different things. Motorcycle gear in the EU must meet certain criteria:
...
Just to put this in context, a single layer of 1.4 mm cow hide will last 5.8 seconds, while 200 gsm denim (or your standard jeans), will last just over half (0.6) of a second (SATRA, 2002).

Jackets and pants - Motorcycle Council of NSW - Road Safety

Any knowledge about the time of a denim plus aramid jeans/jacket?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You pay for what you get as far as quality and comfort and protection goes.
I could survive a holocaust.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure your [awesome looking] Atem is not the BP edition, but okay :)

I would like to get fitted into one of those, but $1,400 for the whole suit is a bit out of reach for me right now, especially considering I just got done shelling out $2,100 on a 6.6k mile CBR 250 (with ABS :)

I'm sort of kind of wishfully thinkingly hoping that I'll find one in my size, lightly used or in good condition that will last me for quite some time (as long as the bike?) for around $800-900 one day. Sure we're talking -$500-600 below retail, but at the same time, I also paid almost $1k less than what I could've for a used CBR 250 with ABS and marginally less miles :)

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P.S. "BP Edition" = "Bullet Proof Edition"
 
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