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All I know is they didn't specify the best oil available, they specified one that meets a certain standard. They get their "Honda quality" paper oil filters from the lowest bidder. I bet their GP bikes don't have those on them.
Good summary of the discussion. Is the Honda oil good enough? Definitely. Is it the best for any given circumstance? Probably not. Is it worth the extra $15 per oil change because the CBR250R only takes 1.4 liters to use expensive oil? It is too me.
 

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Very Impressive Chart. At first glance. I have 20W-50 oil in my Motorcycle's. When I read the Chart, at 0 deg C, (32 deg F),the oil in my engines has a viscosity of 2,865. My wife's vehicle engine is filled with 10W-30. At the same temperature, the oil has a viscosity of 762.

Their is something amiss here. Oh, now I see. Somebody change from SAE to cSt. To make the Chart understandable, keep all of the Information in the same Units.

Without an explanation on how to read this Chart. Think how confusion it is to the Forum Members and visiting Guest.

I found this Chart at the following Link :
Oil Viscosity Explained
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I though the chart was pretty easy to follow.

If you are running 20W-50 in your CBR you obviously don't agree with my recommendations - which happens to be the same as Honda's.

Big picture (for anyone that may not have read the entire thread) - use the recommended grade of oil unless you are operating in extreme conditions. That's what the manual says as well, it just doesn't give specifics as to why. EDIT: synthetic 10W-30 will extend the safe range both up and down.

I came into this thread to clear-up a few things that I didn't agree with, and give some specific information as to when and why changes should be made in oil viscosity based on specific conditions.

I still say don't use 10W-40 in the CBR for normal use, but if you feel 20W-50 is better it's fine with me.


Jay
 

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Michael;3 4787 said:
New graduates know heaps of stuff, Feliz. Old chappies, like you and me, have to bow down in awe.
Wow. I answered his question about design experience. I didn't say anything about knowing it all. I'm getting the feeling we arent understanding each other.

I don't know anything about Honda and neither does anyone else who assumes they have or do not have certain staff. All I said is I'd be surprised and the evidence seems to contradict.
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 ·
212 oil temp, not water temp. How do you know your oil temp? Oil temps will lag way behind your water temps in normal conditions.
Hi Jay,

Yes, that is what I am discussing... oil temperature, not coolant temperature. On all my bikes except the CBR250, I have installed dipstick oil temperature gauges, so I know exactly what my oil temperatures are doing under actual use. Oil temps don't always "lag way behind your water temps in normal conditions." (I could ask, "How do you know your water temp?") My bikes can run or even exceed 250 degrees F under a normal condition of extended freeway speed in hot weather.
 

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Hi Jay,

Yes, that is what I am discussing... oil temperature, not coolant temperature. On all my bikes except the CBR250, I have installed dipstick oil temperature gauges, so I know exactly what my oil temperatures are doing under actual use. Oil temps don't always "lag way behind your water temps in normal conditions." (I could ask, "How do you know your water temp?") My bikes can run or even exceed 250 degrees F under a normal condition of extended freeway speed in hot weather.
What bikes have the dipstick oil temp gauge? Extended high speeds in hot weather isn't "normal" conditions IMO, and that's why I've recommended 10W-40 for the CBR if that's "normal" for you.

"Temp" gauges typically read water temp.

If you are running above 250 oil temp I hope you are using some good oil! I'd add an oil cooler if you don't have one - you need it.

As far as "lag behind" I mean it will take longer for your oil to come up to operating temp than your coolant in normal conditions in most vehicles. It's possible the CBR could be an exception because of the small amount of oil in the engine.

Put an oil temp gauge in the CBR and let us know. If you are consistently running oil temps over 220F in the CBR I'd go up to a 10W-40 synthetic oil.


Jay
 

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Is it better to go for 10w-30 over 5w-30 in the summer? Or does it really not matter? I had been putting Rotella 5w-40 in my Ninja 250, but it sounds like 5w-30 is the way to go for my cold temp starts everyday. The nice thing about Rotella is that I went to Walmart and picked up a gallon for $21. :)
 

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Is it better to go for 10w-30 over 5w-30 in the summer? Or does it really not matter? I had been putting Rotella 5w-40 in my Ninja 250, but it sounds like 5w-30 is the way to go for my cold temp starts everyday. The nice thing about Rotella is that I went to Walmart and picked up a gallon for $21. :)
If the Ninja calls for 10W-40, Rotella T6 synthetic 5W-40 is a good choice. Don't run a 30 grade (5W-30, 10W-30, etc) oil in it. 5W-40 Rotella is fine for normal summer operation.

For cold temps you look at the low-end ("W") rating only. A 5W is better than a 10W for low temp starts. A 5W-30 and a 5W-40 are the same (for the most part) at cold start-up.

Synthetic is always better than conventional for low and high temps.


Jay
 

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I suck at explaining myself. I don't have the Ninja anymore and it did call for 10w-40, so I stuck with Rotella after lots of good stuff I read about it. I still have a half-gallon of the stuff left over actually. I think what I want to ask is what are the choices out there for a fully synthetic 5/10w-30 out there for the CBR? And should I be worried about all the friction modifier/energy conserving stuff out there?
 

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I suck at explaining myself. I don't have the Ninja anymore and it did call for 10w-40, so I stuck with Rotella after lots of good stuff I read about it. I still have a half-gallon of the stuff left over actually. I think what I want to ask is what are the choices out there for a fully synthetic 5/10w-30 out there for the CBR? And should I be worried about all the friction modifier/energy conserving stuff out there?
OK - sorry I didn't catch that. I wouldn't use the T6 (40) unless you are consistently running at higher RPMs in hot temps.

Rotella T5 is a semi-synthetic 10W-30. Otherwise Hondaline HP4s is a full synthetic 10W-30, but a bit pricier.

Don't use any auto 5W-30 or 10W-30 oil. You can also step up to a high-end full synthetic cycle oil like Motul 4T 300V 5W-30 or Redline, Amsoil, etc. 5W is nice for cold starts and if you are looking for max MPG, but 10W synthetic is good for almost everything else.

The Hondaline conventional 10W-30 is fine for normal conditions (whatever they are...) but a synthetic or semi-synthetic will outperform it everywhere else.


Jay
 

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Thanks for the advice. I'll most likely go with the 5w-30 I guess since I'll be stuck in cold starts for a bit. Are the high end ones the only 5w-30s around?
 

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Thanks for the advice. I'll most likely go with the 5w-30 I guess since I'll be stuck in cold starts for a bit. Are the high end ones the only 5w-30s around?
It's not very common to find a cycle-compatible 5W-30.

Most likely it's going to be pretty expensive. Motul, Redline, Repsol, etc all probably make it (I know Motul does).

10W-30 HP4s or Rotella T5 will still be good unless it's extremely cold. 10W synthetic oil flows much better at cold temps than 10W conventional oil.


Jay
 

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5w30 for winter 10w40 for summer... end of story. pick an oil. it will work. if you ride hard get a higher "quality" oil. amsoil 300v mobil etc. if you ride like grandma, then conventional will work just fine. i like 7100 motul. good blend of streetability, and protection.

and someone posted a question about the motul 300v dropping off in the shear test. the reason is the zinc/moly levels in the 300v. the shear test (4 ball wear test) breaks through the zinc in the motul, causes heat and the heat breaks down the oil. causing vicosity drop. amsoil has 1600ppm zinc the motul weights average around 1100ppm. add some ZDDP to the motul and it will compeltely change the results.
 

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and someone posted a question about the motul 300v dropping off in the shear test.
The Motul 300V 5W40 dropped off more than the others while the 10W40 was one of the best. Maybe due to the wide range of the 5W40. The 5W40 wasn't ever really much of a 40. Who knows what the 5W30 will do it wasn't tested. If it is like the 10W40 Motul, it will be one of the best.
 

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it dropped off more because of the heat created by lack of zinc. each weight oil has different polymers and therefore different bonds that are affected differently by heat. i have tried every 300v combo out there and the best so far for me, (on the race side) has been the 530 with zddp in it. but i never wear tested it. only analysed.
 

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it dropped off more because of the heat created by lack of zinc. each weight oil has different polymers and therefore different bonds that are affected differently by heat. i have tried every 300v combo out there and the best so far for me, (on the race side) has been the 530 with zddp in it. but i never wear tested it. only analysed.
Blasphemer! Your empirical evidence of analysis in an actual motorcycle has no bearing here! ;)

Did you have a control analysis w/o the zdp? What was the improvement?
 

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it dropped off more
"IT... dropped off more" ? Which dropped off more? You are missing the point. The Motul 300V 10W40 was one of the best in the test. The 5W40 showed a higher amount of loss in viscosity. Will the 5W30 be among the best or the worst. Who knows. Apparently every different blend of the same brand can test very differently.
 

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Blasphemer! Your empirical evidence of analysis in an actual motorcycle has no bearing here! ;)

Did you have a control analysis w/o the zdp? What was the improvement?
my results probably wont apply to you guys. because of the application. im talking about running it in a 450hp nitrous gsxr 1000 and we are talking about a 25hp single here. lol.. but the end result was that with the addition of ZDDP the levels of material from the bearings (lead copper tin etc) went down, as well as the aluminum count. which means the engine was wearing less. Remember though were talking about ppm here. i ran about 5 test before i found out the zddp even existed. i started looking for it because of the petrone additive everyone runs in alysin oil. all my test results after the 1st two were normalized.. meaning no extra gunk or material in the oil from engine break-in. they can tell if its normalized because there will be no traces of PAO's or PIO's when running 100% ester oils.


with the improved numbers, i could have ran the engine longer, but i change the oil after every race regardless, and only use the reports to monitor the engine for any future failures. still though, in a 250... i really wouldnt spend the money on 300v. 7100, amsoil, or mobil. just change a little more frequently with mobil. another good oil i have been reading about lately is the Fuch's Oil. it uses electostatic properties to bond to the metal. im waiting for the company to email me test results to determine if i actually want to try it or not.
 
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