Honda CBR 250 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To all my fellow CBR Owners, whether you are a brand new Rider, OR, you’ve been riding for years…before buying a single Mod for your Honda, consider a visit to Motojitsu.com. The single most important Mod is to obtain the riding skills to operate your bike is a safe and skilled manner so you are able to come homein one piece, and enjoy another great day of riding!

Greg Widmar has a passion to teach the Biking Community everything you need to become the best Rider you can be, on your CBR, which happens to be one of the best Street Bikes you can start on (and grow into) on the market.

You don’t think you need to practice skills? Is that so? Nope, I’ve been riding for years, they say. Please don’t take that attitude! I’ve been riding over 30 years and the skills I’ve learned at Motojitsu have saved my life in more times than I can count. Forget Mods for increasing HP, a louder pipe, etc., get new skills my CBR friends.

Best of all, Motojitsu skills can be practiced in any Parking Lot, for free. Take a Riding Buddy with you, learn together and make it a healthy competition! I also own a 650 pound Yamaha FJR1300, and have practiced Motojitsu with that. I can’t wait to ride my new 2013 CBR and practice these skills with this featherweight Flyer! 😎
 

·
Registered
Honda: INNOVA125i(2010); CBR250R(2013)
Joined
·
318 Posts
You don’t think you need to practice skills? Is that so?
NO, I think I do....BUT...

Sorry, I really do not agree with you.
The dangers of riding a motorcycle are inherent dangers that are found inside every two-wheeled vehicle, including bicycles, only that motorcycles ride at higher speeds and therefore the injuries are much more severe and fatal.
It is possible and necessary to wear dedicated protective gear, but a bad blow to the head or a blow to the facet joints, perhaps an encounter with a power pole, is enough to return our soul to the Creator Of The World.

The public road has many more surprises than the sterile training track where riding abilities are "improved"(Instincts are not something you learn in a week of training, they are a way of life that only pro riders adapt to in daily training).
And the public road also has far fewer options to accommodate our mistakes without being seriously injured.
30% of motorcycle accidents are from self errors, the rider is 100% guilty. A small mistake, that in the training track may end in scratches, on the public road will end in death.

A motorcycle is a dangerous vehicle, it is difficult for drivers to see us, and every mistake we make, or a road hazard, endangers our lives! So the bottom line is the simplest truth, and anyone who has ridden for 30 years knows this, and may be the father or grandfather of some readers here:
1. No matter how you turn the facts, a motorcycle is a tool that is 16 times more dangerous than a car (No four-wheel stability, No tin box to protect you, No seat belts, No 1/2 meter airbags).
2. High speeds are Killing, which is 16 times true for motorcyclists. Ride slowly!
3. Respect the strongest of you on the road: Cars, Power poles, and Safety fences.
4. Do not ride when you tired.
5. Do not load up another passenger. This excess weight severely impairs the steering ability, and the braking ability. In an accident the extra rider is usually hit harder! There is nothing romantic about hurting the one you love!
6. If you are not crazy about motorcycles, do not buy them to save time in traffic loads, your life is worth more, save your life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
In addition to parking lot practices, another thing I did was to take riding classes at a local track. To clarify, I did not attend track days where riders just race each other, but I took a riding(racing) class where opportunities are given to follow as well as be followed by an expert rider who then advises you on proper technique.

I had an opportunity to take my CBR250R to Streets of Willow racing track. It was quite a blast to ride the course.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Tamir, I’m (respectfully) having a hard time following your line of thought…I never mentioned that practice should only last a week. I believe a new rider should spend most of their time in a safe, low speed environment, preferably with a skilled Riding Mentor to watch his or her learn techniques. How can learning how to emergency brake, swerving, Clutch and Throttle control, body position, low speed figure 8’s not directly transfer to safer street riding?

With all the dangers you point out in riding a Bike on the street, (to the point where you even scare me), how do you propose I reduce the risks then? Just go ride on the street to gain experience?? Help me out here…
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
TheoR, that had to be a blast! I plan on attending some Track Days next Spring at the Pittsburgh International Race Course. I’ve attended three Advanced Riding Courses with Lee Parks’ Total Control, That training alone brought my skills to a higher level.

I mentioned Motojitsu, because there is no better source for training and developing riding skills, hands down. Best of all, the videos are free for the taking!
 

·
Registered
Honda: INNOVA125i(2010); CBR250R(2013)
Joined
·
318 Posts
With all the dangers you point out in riding a Bike on the street, (to the point where you even scare me), how do you propose I reduce the risks then? Just go ride on the street to gain experience?? Help me out here…
I respect other approaches. All is well. Sorry, I had no purpose to scare you. To scare it's an ineffective way to persuade. All I meant was to raise awareness.
Even an important and basic skill such as the instinct that bounces the hand to the front brake lever (100% braking power), it takes many months, and even then it is not certain that in an emergency I will press correctly on the front brake. Most people in an emergency will press with the foot and apply the rear brake (only 20% braking power, and will slip certain), because that's the instinct of who has gained previous experience driving a car. That's how most of us are. don't we?
Same thing about the instinct of counter steering.
All the techniques and tutorials are only good for those who persist in them on a regular basis (professionals), and provided they uses them only on the training track and not on the public road (because the public road dangers also relevant for professional riders).
The sad reality proves, that people who have been in such courses develop an illusion of control and safety that they do not have, and then they increase the rate of riding, and then get into trouble.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
As I any sport, (Football, Baseball, Soccer, Hockey, Bowling to name a few) practice makes one who participates better at that sport. The Sport of Motorcycle Riding demands it even more so, because your Life depends on it. The majority of single Motorcycle accidents occur for the failure to negotiate a turn…why? Riders are not taught the techniques and do not practice those techniques. All of which can be mastered in a parking lot. Try to ride your Bike around a forty foot circle multiple times faster than 20 miles per hour…tell me how you did. Now try it at 25 miles per hour. Can you do it? If yes, you are in a position to greatly reduce the risks of mastering any curve on any road you face. Then learn how to Trail Brake and the risks reduce even further.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Tamir, if you are confident on performing what I described above (on a 350 pound CBR 250), now do the same ride on my 650 pound Yamaha FJR1300…please don’t scratch it.
 

·
Registered
Honda: INNOVA125i(2010); CBR250R(2013)
Joined
·
318 Posts
As I any sport, (Football, Baseball, Soccer, Hockey, Bowling to name a few) practice makes one who participates better at that sport. The Sport of Motorcycle Riding demands it even more so, because your Life depends on it.
YES...BUT:
  • Is not possible to compare riding on sterile competition tracks to a public road.
  • It is impossible to compare a rider with fast instincts (which is the minority), to ordinary riders (which is the majority).
  • It is impossible to compare a professional rider, or a serious amateur (the minority), with ordinary riders (who are the majority)
  • And it is impossible to escape the fact that a motorcycle is dangerous 16 times compared to a car.
Now everyone will do their risk calculations.

I'm in the majority group. The majority are not going to learn to fly planes, because they do not have the born ability to do this, it's a biological matter, not everyone is born equal.
And the majority are not interested in challenge the performance of the motorcycle, nor do most often have this ability, nor the willingness to risk and stretch the abilities on a public road ...

The "Improving Riding" course may only cause an illusion of safety which will cause to unnecessary risk.
Try to ride your Bike around a forty foot circle multiple times faster than 20 miles per hour…tell me how you did. Now try it at 25 miles per hour. Can you do it? If yes, you are in a position to greatly reduce the risks of mastering any curve on any road you face. Then learn how to Trail Brake and the risks reduce even further.
No I can not, I can enjoy the course as an experience, as a hobby, but the course will not change my biology. I'm not good at these things, so why guarantee people like me extra safety that does not exist ... including all the other differences I mentioned above. A motorcycle is dangerous for everyone, I can reduce risk when I follow the six rules I wrote, and that's what I try to do in every ride, and even that, which is the minimum, It does not always work for me, because I am only a human and not a robot.

And after all that, on a public road most of the dangers for me are the same dangers of the professional rider, for example: The oil spilled on the road does not distinguish between a professional rider and a regular rider.
Another example: A vehicle that deviates from the lane and creates a blockage, is less dangerous for the slow rider (who may have time to react), no less dangerous than it is for the fast rider (who may not be able to avoid an accident despite his good control, and because of the speed).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Tamir, I enjoy my dialogue with you! First of all, I am not a professional Rider. What I am is a person who chose to gain riding skills in variety of ways. Motojitsu training, Lee Parks Total Control Advanced Riding Clinics for example AND practicing them until muscle memory is built in.

What does that training do? It greatly reduces the risks of everything you describe are the dangers we face when street riding, correct? I can negotiate any corner (I have driven the Tail of the Dragon and survived) because of PRACTICE! Many riders have died on that road, many others were seriously hurt. Not many street roads more dangerous than The Dragon…I have driven more than 1,000 Street Miles in less than 24 hours, because of the skills I’ve PRACTICED! I wasn’t born with Valentino Rossi MotoGP riding skills…

I started on a Suzuki TS50 with 4.9 HP back in 1972…as a matter of fact, the best place anyone should learn how to ride is not even in a parking lot. It should be on a lightweight trail bike in a grassy field. Tip over at low speed and get a grass stain. That may be the best place to determine if riding a motorcycle is an endeavor a person wants to pursue.
 

·
Registered
Honda: INNOVA125i(2010); CBR250R(2013)
Joined
·
318 Posts
Tamir, I enjoy my dialogue with you! First of all, I am not a professional Rider. What I am is a person who chose to gain riding skills in variety of ways. Motojitsu training, Lee Parks Total Control Advanced Riding Clinics for example AND practicing them until muscle memory is built in.

What does that training do? It greatly reduces the risks of everything you describe are the dangers we face when street riding, correct? I can negotiate any corner (I have driven the Tail of the Dragon and survived) because of PRACTICE! Many riders have died on that road, many others were seriously hurt. Not many street roads more dangerous than The Dragon…I have driven more than 1,000 Street Miles in less than 24 hours, because of the skills I’ve PRACTICED! I wasn’t born with Valentino Rossi MotoGP riding skills…

I started on a Suzuki TS50 with 4.9 HP back in 1972…as a matter of fact, the best place anyone should learn how to ride is not even in a parking lot. It should be on a lightweight trail bike in a grassy field. Tip over at low speed and get a grass stain. That may be the best place to determine if riding a motorcycle is an endeavor a person wants to pursue.
Everything you describe is understandable to me, and thanks for sharing, I am also interested to hear your opinion and the information you provide is important.
Motorcycle stunt is a very limited genre out of all the riders, a very small minority, I can understand the pleasure that is in great control of the motorcycle, is it adds safety on a public road? I think not, and I do not know of any scientific research that proves otherwise. One who has good control of emotional impulses, has not done nonsense on a public road, and drives according to the rules, does not risk himself more than a normal rider. The problem that many of us are tempted to dangerous behavior on the road to show off with their new abilities, others will do it innocently, these behaviors only adds to the risk and does not reduce it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yes, I agree with you. It is upsetting to watch Riders act like absolute Fools on a Bike. The non-riding Public sees them ride like Jack Asses and presumes all motorcycle riders are Jack Asses…the same goes for Riders who refuse to wear a quality Helmet, riding gear (Jacket and Pants with armor, Gloves, Boots), not a tanktop, shorts and flip flops.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
@CBR-FJR thank you for motojitsu info! Having riden bikes for 38-yrs, I see that riding always has room for improvement. I'm still getting better after all this time! My traffic monitoring skills are adapting to new vehicles and new densities and more distracted drivers on cell-phones.
My reactions are improving.

I started racing with AFMracing 5-yrs ago and got 2nd in 250-class my 1st season! Yet my lap-times have improved since then. Shows that my bike-handling skill have gotten better. I don't see an end to my continued progress. My only regret is I didn't start racing at 4-yrs old like Rossi! Then I would be even better than I am now!

We train fireman, astronauts, doctors, soldiers, etc.. Only shows that practice makes one better with higher skills than those with less. Insurance companies knows new riders with less practice have lower skills than older more experienced riders and charge accordingly. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
DannoXYZ…”You can bring a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.” You and I can talk all day long on the merits of practicing our Riding skills. It can be, as you mentioned, faster Lap times on the track, staying safe in the mean streets, etc.

This discussion has, for the most part, one reason…I truly care about anyone who throws a leg over a motorcycle! They are choosing a sport unlike any other in the world. Once they sit their Behind on that saddle, I welcome them with open arms…to that friend I say, “I want to help you stay alive.” Before every ride, I’ve taught my wife to tell me, “Use all your skills,” instead of “Be Safe.” The outcome of the latter is directly related to the use of the former. Peace
 

·
Registered
Honda: INNOVA125i(2010); CBR250R(2013)
Joined
·
318 Posts
I truly care about anyone who throws a leg over a motorcycle! They are choosing a sport unlike any other in the world. Once they sit their Behind on that saddle, I welcome them with open arms…to that friend I say, “I want to help you stay alive.”
All is well, you're right, just acknowledge that not everyone will be a Valentino Russian, even if they start riding at age 4. And recognize that there are people who do not have the desire, motivation, and time to invest in further riding education, people like me. To such riders(like me) I say:
Ride slowly, that's all it takes to improve the safety of a 2 wheel vehicle that is dangerous anyway. Speed is all that matters, and speed is everything that is really under every rider's control, and when riding on a public road the speed issue is also true for the professional riders that among us.

As the old man says: "The oil stain, or the light pole, their both does not distinguish between a regular rider or a professional rider".

Nowhere will you find different statistics for the risk associated with an advanced riding course, and I argue that even the opposite, these courses are more dangerous to the rider than beneficial to him. A risk factor that researchers have been able to prove is young age.

One of the derivatives of the "Low Speed Safety Rule"(LSSR), do not get on a powerful motorcycle if you do not have the ability to control the urge to turn the throttle tight. I have a problem with this issue, so the CBR250R is the maximum that is safe for me.

And if I will buy a CB750 tomorrow and you will tell me "I've gone crazy! and that it's dangerous for you"...Sorry, anyone who chooses to ride a motorcycle, is 16 times more at risk compared to cars. That's how it is, everything is relative.
May we all have live long and prosper🖖
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hey Tamir, what I recognize is that many, many riders who have tragically died riding a motorcycle should have never started in the first place…actually, riding is 38 times more dangerous than driving a car. You have to have the Skills to pay the Riding Bills…
 

·
Registered
Honda: INNOVA125i(2010); CBR250R(2013)
Joined
·
318 Posts
You have to have the Skills to pay the Riding Bills…
Yes, I wish it was that simple. 70% of the risk factors in riding on a motorcycle are fixed variables that do not depend on any course, do not depend on the rider, do not matter what bill I pay. The other 30% is human factor. I say course is adding risk, you say course is reduce risk. The average of our two opinions states that the course does not create any effect.
And I add, the course is good only for those who are interested in improving in lap speed, and that is where the benefits of the course end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
With my 30 plus years of riding, I will choose to continue to practice. It’s really hard to convince me that one has not helped the other. My emergency braking practice saved my life (as you say, from factors on the street) that others have died because they did not practice, OR, had no desire to practice…

Shame on them, cause Death took them off the Planet too soon (because of their attitudes or Beliefs, disregarding their responsibilities to not learn proper riding skills.)
 

·
Registered
Honda: INNOVA125i(2010); CBR250R(2013)
Joined
·
318 Posts
It’s really hard to convince me that one has not helped the other.
All is well my friend, I'm not in the segment of persuading, "persuading" is a less appropriate word for the discussion that was grow here. We share knowledge and present two different opinions and approaches.
The three of us have been dragging with us for decades in the scene, which creates a very diverse and serious document.
Each of us, or each of the readers, will take from here what is right for him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yes I agree with you. Life has endless choices.
You can ride a motorcycle or choose not to.
You can ride a motorcycle and practice, or not.
You can ride a motorcycle with a Helmet and proper gear, or chose not to.
You can ride a motorcycle, drink alcohol and get drunk, or ride Sober…
You can take advice from more experienced Riders, or choose not to.
The most basic advice I can give any Rider? Keep it between the lines…or not.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top