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Just curious.. at what RPM do you downshift?

6404 Views 16 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  CORNHOLIO
Hey everyone!

I am a new rider, a complete newbie, and I am having trouble with downshifting.

I have a 2012 CBR250r, and I was just wondering, at what RPM should I be downshifting?

My fiance and I went riding this weekend and something happened that completely freaked me out.. I am guessing that I didn't downshift fast enough, I was approaching turn and I was in 3rd gear my bike started "knocking" excessively and I stalled in the middle of my turn, it scared the crap out of me, thank god the car that was coming towards me stopped. And then when I stalled I couldn't start my bike back up again, I simply couldn't put it back in neutral, I might have been under stress and couldn't concentrate on what I was actually doing but anyway... can anyone help me, any advice would be helpful.

Thanks!
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What happened to you is a good example of how important downshifting is. The only way to really get it right is to practice. Then if you feel like you've got it, go practice some more!!


I rarely look at the tach so i wouldn't be able to pinpoint the RPM's for you. I usually go by the sound & feel of the engine. But if I remember correctly, the rev's climb by about 1000rmp for every gear you downshift? so I would say downshift at around 5500rpm's. (keep in mind that the jump to 1st is a big one, so leave it in 2nd until about 4500-5000) I like keeping the bike in it's powerband, (about 6500 - 8000ish) so it depends on how you ride.

Hope that answers your question.
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A few pieces of advice.
Number 1, carrying a passenger is much more difficult than riding solo. Before you take anyone elses life into your hands, make sure your compitent on the bike. You would hate to dump your fiance on the ground, even worse when she gets back up and probably never wants to ride with you again.
Number 2, go take an MSF riding course and you will learn a good deal to get you started.

Onto your specific question. Before you enter a corner you should set your entry speed. In some cases this requires down shifting (always down shift prior to corner entry as shifting in a turn can cause you to wipe out).
The engine on our bikes lugs below 4k-4.5k range. I generally shift down before that point. When carrying a passenger your rpm will need to be higher.
The bike doesn't start making good torque until 6k-7k which is where you need to be more of the time. I "cruise" around at around 5.5k and shift up at 7k-8k for normal driving.

The reason you couldn't get back in first/neutral is when shifting down make sure you shift down 1 gear at a time and let the clutch out between each gear. The transmission on a motorcycle is sequential and you need to let the clutch out between each gear, unlike a car where you can go from 5th to 2nd no problem. So in that situation you need to ease the clutch in and out while rocking the bike forward and backward until it drops into gear. Don't push hard on the shifter to try and force it, it won't work.
The goal is every time you stop you've already slipped it into first gear.
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A few pieces of advice.
Number 1, carrying a passenger is much more difficult than riding solo. Before you take anyone elses life into your hands, make sure your compitent on the bike.
+1

(I missed that completely):D
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Oh, no I meant, we were riding on separate bikes, he has his bike and I have mine, I've never carried any passengers, nor do I think I ever will..

I did take the MSF course and passed with a 100% mark, but they didn't concentrate on teaching us downshifting :-/
Both of your comments (Gungnir) as-well are very helpful, thank you! :)

See, I am downshifting as soon as I get at 4K RPM which is when it starts to "lug" as you said, so I should be downshifting before 4K is what your saying? Makes sense.

And what about "blipping", what are your thoughts on that?
I thought that may have been the case (2 bikes) but it wasn't very clear.

The MSF course needs to be updated, but it's still useful.

I would downshift when it feels like it needs it, which depending on the riding conditions, for me is almost always above 5k. I'll putt around at 5.5k but as soon as I need to accelerate I downshift.

Focus less on the RPM gauge and just get a feel for it. It comes with time.

As for blipping, I'm not 100% sure what you mean. But anything that is not smooth, is a no no. and blipping the throttle at any time sounds like a bad idea.
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Oh, no I meant, we were riding on separate bikes, he has his bike and I have mine, I've never carried any passengers, nor do I think I ever will..

I did take the MSF course and passed with a 100% mark, but they didn't concentrate on teaching us downshifting :-/
Both of your comments (Gungnir) as-well are very helpful, thank you! :)

See, I am downshifting as soon as I get at 4K RPM which is when it starts to "lug" as you said, so I should be downshifting before 4K is what your saying? Makes sense.

And what about "blipping", what are your thoughts on that?
This threa might also be usefull to you: http://www.cbr250.net/forum/honda-cbr250-general-discussion/11169-question-about-downshifting.html

You should practice blipping the throttle while downshifting (only when your clutch is engaged though). This will make the bike feel more stable (don't know if that's the correct english word) while downshifting. You'll find it hard in the beginning, but it makes your rie so much smoother. Try to blip it by about 500rpm's (higher than it was before ownshifting).
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Sorry about the confusing I should have specified (2) bikes.

Your right, I should focus less on the gauge shift when it feels right! I'll get the hang of it with practice

I've read multiple times that "blipping the trottle" just before letting go of the clutch makes a smooth downshift and puts less strain on your bike in the long run, but whenever I do "blip" the throttle it just jerks even more, so either I'm not doing it right or I shouldn't even be doing it.. o_O
I've read multiple times that "blipping the trottle" just before letting go of the clutch makes a smooth downshift and puts less strain on your bike in the long run, but whenever I do "blip" the throttle it just jerks even more, so either I'm not doing it right or I shouldn't even be doing it.. o_O
It does make it smoother and you will struggle with it in the beginning. i't not the easiest skill to acquire, but well worth practicing.;)
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So the blipping your refering to is called matching engine speed while shifting. Think of it this way. When you downshift your drivetrain will be moving at a higher rpm than it was in the higher gear.
If you let your gas off and pull the clutch in your rpms will drop. When you let your clutch back out, the rpm of the engine very quickly comes up to the speed of the drive train and this causes it to jerk and feel unstable.

But, if you give it a little gas (smoothly) right before you let the clutch out (smooothly) you will have very little to no rpm jumping as your engine speed is near the same speed as your drive train (ideally the exact same speed).



This is why it seems like you can down shift smoother if your trying to accelerate rather than decelerate. When accelerating your already wanting to get back on the gas and your matching engine speed without knowing it. When decelerating you have to make yourself give it a little gas to ease into each gear.

Doing it correctly and smoothly only comes with time.
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I always break/downshift before the turn. You never want to break while in the middle of your turn. If you feel the motor lugging its time to downshift
When going into a turn you should be in a gear that will allow you to adjust your speed. It may just be me but when I'm slowing down I use the speedo to help me decide if need be. I use second from 20-30mph, third from 30-40 mph and if I'm on the highway I don't bother downshifting.
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[longish post for novice, basics etc, just scroll on bye]

bikes used not have speedos or tachos, thus speed and revs
were still happening and riders were still riding and learning
riding skills, but without the additional numerical input..
point being that aside from speed limits you dont really
need to know the exact numbers representing your speed
or engine revolutions per minute..

while it may be of some value to have reference points
[such as a vertical tacho indicator for around 6 - 7000rpm]
when learning your motorcycle, it is also a good idea
to allow your brain to be aware of and respond to
what is actually happening.. your eyes and skin will give
good indications of relative speed, together with your ears
and even subtle sensing thru fingers hands feet and body
will give you [unavoidable] brain data on what your engine
and motorcycle are actually doing..

tacho/speedo numbers are only, an indication,
and should not add to potential stress leves thru
attempting to calculate rev/speed rations while riding..
a glance at the speedo now and then to check speed
or tacho for revs is ok of course, but best keep eyes
and thus awareness and focus ahead of you,
to the place you are entering and will be soon..
usually thats dead ahead, together with peripheral vision,
and also with head turned into any corner you are entering
or proceeding thru,, ie, watching where you will be as
you continue thru a continuing corner or curve..

taking off and continuing [accelerating] means going from first gear
up thru the gears at sufficient revs [better more, than less] which
will generate forward momentum thus 'speed', as you already know..
similarly, in reverse order, when and as you reduce, speed, you will
go back down thru the gears, until you reach standstill or whatever
slower speed suits what you are doing or about to do..

just as you change gears upward using clutch as you go to smooth
out the changes, so you can do the reverse sequence without
using clutch.. especially at lower speeds..
however, at higher speeds/revs when you change down thru gears,
the numerical gear ratio will result in higher, revs at clutch out..
[at very high revs in the lower gears this can result in wheel lock
due to this factor when exaggerated that way]
when its not that exaggerated tho but still at fairly high revs/speed
the result will be the back wheel not locking but still creating
resistance to, forward motion/speed and engine revolutions..
this then is 'engine braking'..

ie, not merely matching revs as speed drops, when the engine revs
will drop as you ease the throttle off and pull the clutch lever in,
then rise again to [about] the same revs you were at before
changing down a gear then continue to drop as speed decreases
with throttle eased off.. this is matching the moving forces..
which makes for smoother transitions and generally stable
forward momentum.. [as opposed to jerky interactions]

so what you want and should aim for in practice and general
riding is, smoothness.. this is a foundational skill in riding..
everything, is effected by smoothness, in a good way..
the opposite of smoothness ultimately means losing
control and crashing.. there is no limit to smoothness..

when learning these basic skills, which as members advise
will happen in response to practice and experience,
it is therefor best to opt for smooth actions in such as
clutching, braking, changing gears and all other transitions
such as from vertical to angled when leaning to turn..
while, one result of smooth skills will include efficiency
which can manifest in faster actions, it is still the best
option to do things slowly, at first, for smoothness,
than going for speed and fast actions, which wont be
naturally smooth as going fast is the result of,,
smoothness, and not the creator of smoothness..

so when you are practicing which is every time
you even think of, riding your motorcycle,
it is best to start everything slowly rather
than attempting to do things fasts first up..

slowly, smoothly, deliberately, with awareness
and conscious control, leads to good technique
- and - results in the pivotal brain training..

brain training results in good riding habits..
habitual riding skills dont rely on thinking,
which can be directed towards other things
such as whats happening ahead of you,
what other vehicles are doing or about to do,
and suchlike..

obviously when first learning to ride you must use
brain and thinking to ingest the basics of what
you are trying to do, as in any skills development..
but the goal is for your body to ride the bike,
while you or your mind decide to do things
and prepare to do things, such as when to
slow down for a corner or stop for a light
or take care of drivers doing this or that..

also, you want to be relaxed and enjoying riding[!]
this means your body doing what it should be doing
[smoothly] which is also pleasant and nice,
while your mind is also enjoying this
very enjoyable life experience..
riding your motorcycle...

any and all practice, with the right frame of mind,
is and must be and cannot other than be, good..
it will result in ongoing increments of increased skill..
like any activity, there will be phases and breakthrus
in even the most simple actions such as using
your clutch.. fingers and hand and wrist will,
develop this skill.. they will get stronger
and become more coordinated as a result..
thus, they will become better tools for
you brain and mind to use to better
increase, smoothness, and riding
pleasure [ :) ]
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~~
Blipping took me awhile to start getting right. Felt like a moron when I first got my bike, jerking the bike around trying to get the engine speed matched up right. At first, I was actually letting the clutch out REALLY slow when downshifting, almost using it like a brake so I wouldn't jerk around. But now I can usually do it pretty well. 1st, and to a lesser extent, 2nd are a little different than the rest of the gears though, and require a fair amount of saddle time to figure out HOW different they really are.

When slowing down on a straight for a stop sign, for instance, I usually downshift around 5k. At 4k, you should be able to downshift with little to no blipping. Anything higher than that requires at least some throttle to be applied smooth it out.
~~
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As a new CBR250R rider, my experience seems to be the other way around.

I (very rarely, mostly in traffic) go 2->1 at 4k with a fair amount of blipping.
3->2 at 5k with a nice firm blip
4->3 and 5->4 around 5-6k with a very small blip taking me to 6-7k.
As a new CBR250R rider, my experience seems to be the other way around.

I (very rarely, mostly in traffic) go 2->1 at 4k with a fair amount of blipping.
3->2 at 5k with a nice firm blip
4->3 and 5->4 around 5-6k with a very small blip taking me to 6-7k.
Transmission ratios are not in even jumps, therefore the blipping as you point out should not be even, but in practice if you are not a professional sports rider you do not enter these resolutions. The main thing is to give a blipping (A little above the throttle angle we are at the moment before the downshift), and usually this creates a smooth or close to smooth downshift.
6th(0.962) TO 5th(1.115) +15% rpm
5th(1.115) To 4th(1.304) +17% rmp
4th(1.304) TO 3rd(1.571) +20% rpm
3rd(1.571) TO 2nd(2.117) +35% rpm
2nd(2.117) TO 1st(3.333) +22% rpm
You are welcome to check my claim and my calculations.
Believe it or not, your numbers do match my empiric findings fairly well.
I do in particular feel that 3 -> 2 does need a pretty deliberate twist of the handle in everyday life to get a smooth transition...
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