[zerocool]

Hello,
So first of all its a 2016 CBR250R Non ABS,
8.8k kms done on it and we don't have a specific parking for the bike so the bike is always in rain.
Straight to the problem.
The key turns twice right? Once to unlock the handle and then at the second time, it turns the display on and the fuel pump goes on (with a little vibration).
The handle gets unlocked but the display does not turn on and neither does the fuel pump.
This goes on for a couple of times and then i keep the key turning off and on again and again and 4-5 times after doing that everything starts!
Once it starts then the bike has no problems. (Other than the time when my friend once told that he saw the check engine light but its been a month that I'm riding after he mentioned and i never saw it.)
The bike runs well once it starts, But when I park it and go somewhere then come back again, I face all of this again.
I'm thinking this might be something related to wires and some lose connections but I want to ask you guys out as you all have experiences with the same bike.

Thanks in Advance. Please help out.

 

[jkv357]

Sounds like the ignition switch itself may be bad. Can't say I recall hearing of that issue before though.

You could try spraying some lube into the lock cylinder in case something is stuck internally that needs to rotate. It may or may not do anything. A locksmith shop might have the best lube to use, or have other suggestions.

Replacing the lock cylinder could be a pain, as the helmet and gas filler lock would be different unless you can get an exact replacement from Honda. Not sure if that's possible.

 

[zerocool]

I'm a noob. Will something like WD40 work? Should i try that?
Or a lube like machine oil or something like that?

 

[jkv357]

I'm a noob. Will something like WD40 work? Should i try that?
Or a lube like machine oil or something like that?

Not sure what I'd use, but I'm not the biggest fan of WD-40 as it's really not a "lube".

I might call a locksmith and see what they recommend, or check an auto parts store for something designed to go in a lock.

That would be your safest bet, but WD-40 might work.

 

[TrueFaith]

I think the ignition switch being the cause is fairly unlikely, but kudos to jkv357 for at least trying to direct your attention somewhere given the many possibilities that could be responsible for your symptoms. As he points out the bike has no "known" issues with the ignition switch and if simply parking it in the rain could cause this I'm sure we would have heard about similar situations long before now. While it certainly could be wear or corrosion of some kind within the switch, it could just as easily be a short in the wiring or a loose connection, in which case it's probably not going to be easy to isolate and resolve.
His suggestion to lubricate the switch is as good a place to start as anywhere, as is his caution to find a recommended lube from a locksmith before spraying WD-40 in there and possibly creating more problems. I would think a dry, graphite-based lube would be the best thing to use over anything wet in an ignition switch, but take his advice and ask an locksmith or a mechanic familiar with bike ignitions at your local service shop before attempting any DIY fix.

 

[jkv357]

I think the ignition switch being the cause is fairly unlikely, but kudos to jkv357 for at least trying to direct your attention somewhere given the many possibilities that could be responsible for your symptoms. As he points out the bike has no "known" issues with the ignition switch and if simply parking it in the rain could cause this I'm sure we would have heard about similar situations long before now. While it certainly could be wear or corrosion of some kind within the switch, it could just as easily be a short in the wiring or a loose connection, in which case it's probably not going to be easy to isolate and resolve.
His suggestion to lubricate the switch is as good a place to start as anywhere, as is his caution to find a recommended lube from a locksmith before spraying WD-40 in there and possibly creating more problems. I would think a dry, graphite-based lube would be the best thing to use over anything wet in an ignition switch, but take his advice and ask an locksmith or a mechanic familiar with bike ignitions at your local service shop before attempting any DIY fix.

The reason I was leaning towards a mechanical problem with the switch itself instead of a wiring issue is that he hasn't blown a fuse, and after a few tries it will work.

It still could be wiring or a corroded connector though.

 

[shisoshin]

locksmith recommended penetrating lube 'inox' mx3
worked well in my exposed security lock and ignition..

however before that, with bikes exposed, rain etc,
i would use wd40 probably every couple of months,
or as key felt less easy to turn..
wd40 is not a lube as members note, but it can function
in this situation, ie, mechanism effected by ongoing water
entry.. same process over years did the trick [until inox]..

tank cap lock key stuck and refused to move/come out
while filling i borrowed wd40 from my friendly
non-ethanol caltex servo manager, which also
did the trick, with a good saturating spray
and after a few minutes then testing..
also worked once when tank cap key stuck
[in my servo filling up, borrowed wd40]

my practice is to use the fine tube to insert well
into the locking mechanism, then saturating it
[until drips appear underneath]
then after adjusting chain or whatever,
testing carefully, repeatedly, with key..
key should then move freely and smoothly..

even after starting with a cover
ignition and tank locks still needed
the occasional spray to work smoothly..

 

[zerocool]

I think the ignition switch being the cause is fairly unlikely, but kudos to jkv357 for at least trying to direct your attention somewhere given the many possibilities that could be responsible for your symptoms. As he points out the bike has no "known" issues with the ignition switch and if simply parking it in the rain could cause this I'm sure we would have heard about similar situations long before now. While it certainly could be wear or corrosion of some kind within the switch, it could just as easily be a short in the wiring or a loose connection, in which case it's probably not going to be easy to isolate and resolve.
His suggestion to lubricate the switch is as good a place to start as anywhere, as is his caution to find a recommended lube from a locksmith before spraying WD-40 in there and possibly creating more problems. I would think a dry, graphite-based lube would be the best thing to use over anything wet in an ignition switch, but take his advice and ask an locksmith or a mechanic familiar with bike ignitions at your local service shop before attempting any DIY fix.

I don't know any recommended graphite based lubes. Any recommendations?

locksmith recommended penetrating lube 'inox' mx3
worked well in my exposed security lock and ignition..

however before that, with bikes exposed, rain etc,
i would use wd40 probably every couple of months,
or as key felt less easy to turn..
wd40 is not a lube as members note, but it can function
in this situation, ie, mechanism effected by ongoing water
entry.. same process over years did the trick [until inox]..

tank cap lock key stuck and refused to move/come out
while filling i borrowed wd40 from my friendly
non-ethanol caltex servo manager, which also
did the trick, with a good saturating spray
and after a few minutes then testing..
also worked once when tank cap key stuck
[in my servo filling up, borrowed wd40]

my practice is to use the fine tube to insert well
into the locking mechanism, then saturating it
[until drips appear underneath]
then after adjusting chain or whatever,
testing carefully, repeatedly, with key..
key should then move freely and smoothly..

even after starting with a cover
ignition and tank locks still needed
the occasional spray to work smoothly..

The 'inox' mx3 is it a graphite based lube?
I searched for it and it isn't available in India. Any alternatives for it?

 

[jkv357]

I might use a "wet" lube that dries, like some of the typical aerosol "dry" lubes.

The wet spray under pressure would help to wash away anything that's gumming-up the lock, and then it would dry without leaving any sticky lube to gum it up again.

I think it would be worth a try, but I'm not positive it's going to cure the problem.

 

[TrueFaith]

I don't know any recommended graphite based lubes. Any recommendations?

The 'inox' mx3 is it a graphite based lube?
I searched for it and it isn't available in India. Any alternatives for it?

Dry graphite lube is widely available in most auto parts and hardware stores here. They're mainly used for car and home door locks that are sticking.
Some of the more popular brands are "Lock-Ease", "3-IN-ONE Dry Lube" and "Slip Plate"", but even companies like WD-40, Rust-Oleum and Loctite have their own versions of graphite lube.
There does exist a difference of opinion on whether graphite is good for locks or not, with some saying that it can build up in the lock mechanism and make matters worse and others saying that it's the only lubricant that should be used in those applications.
That's why an experienced locksmith's recommendation based on your specific need is so important.
Inox MX3 is a "wet" lube and is sort of a "super" WD-40, but using a much more refined machine oil as it's base. It contains no silicon, kerosene or dieselene. WD-40, by comparison, is mostly mineral oil with lots of petrochemicals and alkanes added, like undecane, tridecane and tetradecane. Those chemicals consist of long chain molecules that naturally resist and displace moisture.
Imox MX3 is more of a true "lubricant". A more super-refined and "pure" one than WD-40, without WD-40's signature water repelling and displacing qualities. Inox MX3's most important quality is penetration. It also has dielectric properties that improve conduction in mechanisms such as ignition switches, so I can see why the locksmith specifically recommended it for your application.
Imox MX3 is a pretty unique product, so there aren't a lot of knock-offs out there that I can see. It's very popular with gun owners and fishermen (for cleaning and lubing their fishing reels), so you may have some luck finding it at a firearm, sport fishing or outdoor store if you have any nearby. There is also a "store locator" function on Imox's website (at the bottom of the homepage) that may be helpful, as it's sold all over the world.

INOX MX3 Lubricant - Inox Lubricants

 

[zerocool]

Thank you for the reply guys and @TrueFaith thank you for such a great explanation.
I'll definitely search for a lube like the Inox MX3.
I went on the link you provided but unfortunately they don't sell it in anywhere in Asia.
You guys have the same idea about the wet lube which should dry up later.
I'll try it and update asap.

 

[TrueFaith]

zerocool, do you have access to eBay or an eBay-like auction site like Alibaba over there?
I just checked US eBay and they have multiple listings offering sales of Imox MX3.
Might be one way to get around the fact that it's not sold at retail stores in your country.

 

[shisoshin]

inox mx3 not available in india, but get it on ebay;

INOX MX3 Spray Lubricant 100gm (3.5 oz.) Aerosol Can | eBay

as TF points out, this is a high quality specialist product
from an extablished australian creator/producer..
can says; 'wont dry out or wash off with water'..

my locksmith recommended it for a gourmet english lock
[with chain, for bike outdoors] as i was concerned about
possible moisture damage.. using it in ignition lock
seemed a natural better alternative to wd40..

it has everything that opens and shuts, cfc free,
kosher certified[!] plus high technical qualities
and properties etc.. a thin tube applicator
for getting right in there..
mine cost $13 from the lockie
so ebay prices look good..

ive previously recommended wd40 as an
emergency solution to stuck keys etc
due to moisture/water, but this inox
is the real deal.. [they have other
anti-moisture products etc that
i havnt used, but others seem
to think theyre the ants pants]

 

[psr]

I feel this is a typical problem with Negative return earthing problem. There is a cluster of Green wires attached to-gether and fixed to the RR unit fixing bolt. This develops loose contact and develops problems from Intermittent engine cut off, Fuel pump not starting, instrument cluster not coming on and doing self check etc,. The remedy is to run a 10mm insulated wire of approximately 60 CM in length from Battery Negative to The RR fixing bolt.....

For further read on this ..https://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-biking-discussion/31802-story-so-far-my-honda-cbr-250r-9.html

 

[MotoMike]

@zerocool ~ I'm not convinced that the issue you're having, which is best described as an intermittent 'open' electrical circuit, is going to be solved by using a lock lube in the ignition key switch. Having read your opening post, and unless I'm misunderstanding the problem, it doesn't sound like you're having a problem with physically being able to turn the ignition key.

Rather, I'd suspect that you may have a faulty electrical ground issue causing the intermittent 'no electrical power - no start', as psr also describes in his post above. And while his post suggests running an extra ground wire from the battery negative terminal to the regulator/rectifier mounting (which won't hurt anything), I would also recommend checking & cleaning the ring terminal lugs of the main battery ground cable (Black cable) for corrosion where it connects to the negative battery terminal and at the other end of the cable where it connects the the engine. Also check & clean the 3 ring terminals of the Green wires where they connect at the regulator/rectifier mount.

 

[shisoshin]

i read ops post as having a possible component related to
key sticking, or read into his description that factor..
sticking key isnt electrical, but is one symptom
members have experienced over the years
[including me, bike outdoors, ride in rain]..
also considering others with key problems etc..

one small thing still on key movement,
dont forget to move key up, and down,
[think spring loaded] as part of your
key movement.. ie, deliberately press it
down into lock first, then turn,
stopping if theres resistance..

do this same up/down movement if/when
using spray lube etc for sticking key..

 

[jkv357]

Any resolution to the problem?

 

[JamesThunderson]

Have you tried a locksmith to resolve that issue?

 

[Vishal993]

Problem of such forum is the people post reply when their mind is blank. Once problem is resolved by doing something they will just leave the thread without further information.

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