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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I own a 08 ninja 250 modded. Looking for a modded CBR 250 to settle the debate of which one is faster. Ill goto the track (Autobahn in Joliet, north course) or a favorite country road.
Anybody here interested??
Heres a link to my 250 if you think you have something for me let me know please.
The speedos on the ninja are just as bad as the honda. Gearing commander says 108-110 mph with my set up using the tach reading of 12,500 in 6th.
I cant find a thing on youtube about a good head to head match up.
Track or dragrace.

Im not trolling nor will I be responding to the inevitable mine is better than yours comments. I own a kawi and a yamaha trackbike. I have owned hondas in the past and loved them for reliability and build quality.
 

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I own a 08 ninja 250 modded. Looking for a modded CBR 250 to settle the debate of which one is faster. Ill goto the track (Autobahn in Joliet, north course) or a favorite country road.
Anybody here interested??
Heres a link to my 250 if you think you have something for me let me know please.
2008 Ninja 250R 0 - top speed 115 mph indicated* - YouTube
The speedos on the ninja are just as bad as the honda. Gearing commander says 108-110 mph with my set up using the tach reading of 12,500 in 6th.
I cant find a thing on youtube about a good head to head match up.
Track or dragrace.

Im not trolling nor will I be responding to the inevitable mine is better than yours comments. I own a kawi and a yamaha trackbike. I have owned hondas in the past and loved them for reliability and build quality.
What debate? We know the Ninja is slightly quicker, but they are both slow.

The Honda gets better mileage and is also fuel injected though. And it's got more torque making in town easier to ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I would rather it be settled at the track. Its not all about HP there.
Plus I would like to see/hear a fully modded cbr. Plus, I wouldnt mind having another riding buddie.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #5
sounds dangerous to ride with you
Whatever dude. I ride advanced group with sportbiketracktime on a 600. I have logged well over 5000 miles on the track on the 250, and another 5000 on the 600. I live to trackride.
Heres a shot of me on the 250 at the track.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Heres a vid
Im 3rd back at 37 seconds
2nd back at 1:09
outside pass at 1:30
Gone after 2:32

I was riding the track prepped (front suspension only and removed the bodywork) FZ6 yamaha and chasing a honda 929
Clearly a horsepower disadvantage as the FZ is all stock otherwise.

Thats me in the freeze frame above.
 

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Whatever dude. I ride advanced group with sportbiketracktime on a 600. I have logged well over 5000 miles on the track on the 250, and another 5000 on the 600. I live to trackride.
Heres a shot of me on the 250 at the track.

You're just awesome man, No debate about it.
 

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I'll preface what I am about to say with this bit of information. I am new to riding and new to the CBR250r. I have no brand loyalty what-so-ever and I was going to pick up a Ninja 650 before deciding on the CBR250r for financial reasons, and for wanting to learn on a more forgiving platform.

That aside. I think the CBR250r is the more capable platform once a few mods are performed. What I mean by this is that the stock engine is intentionally de-tuned from Honda to make it a beginner bike that will pass emissions in all the countries where it is sold, as well as be quiet enough to remain legal in all markets. It is intentionally given a much lower compression ratio, smaller TB, smaller injector, and a lower redline. Basically, it is a single cylinder cut from a CBR1000rr, with the same bore, stroke and valve specifications, but with the changes I listed above. Were it given the same specifications as one of the CBR1000s cylinders (fuel injector, compression ratio, larger throttle body, and the ECU tuned to allow revs to 12.5k rpm) it is reasonable to assume that the little thumper could push out around 40-45bhp versus the stock 25bhp.

The little Ninja, while a great bike, already has many of the aforementioned modifications built in to the stock design of the motor. The compression ratio is higher, the redline is higher, etc, and due to this, it makes about 30bhp stock. From the same modifications described earlier, the Ninja would give up less power, because it is already very close to the conservative max specs (listed for the CBR) from the factory.

Further evidence of what I am talking about is fact that MotoGP Moto3 class racing for 2012 will feature a strikingly similar powerplant in Honda's offering (the NSF250r).

Were I more experienced, and had the bike long enough to have performed my recommended mods, I would love to take you up on your offer, if for no other reason than, as you put it above, to find a new riding buddy.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Thats why Im asking. Im intersted in seeing the difference as the honda will be allowed in E-superstock. My mods are legal to race in that class.
BUT........ To think you can get 40-45 horsepower is pie in the sky. (at the wheel anyway) I got just under 32 horse at the wheel. Up 7 horse from stock. It takes serious money to get much more than that from the 250 twin on the ninja.
Its unrealistic to think that you (or anyone) will get much more than 5-8 horsepower increase over stock and keep it reliable enough to ride it on the street for more than 500 miles. Let alone keep it legal to race. (ya cant crack open the motor in race trim)
BTW the reason I can pull a 30% increase on the ninja is the same reason you will pull 30% on the honda. They are all detuned to meet emmisions worldwide. The ninja runs mega lean from the factory and is so quiet you cant hear it.
Theres a guy pulling 39 horse all motor (at the wheel) on his ninja but he has to rebuild it often,(every 500-750 miles) as he set the maxton mile record on it. I think hes near 55 horse with spray. He only gets to make a few runs on it, then has to rebuild it.
 

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Thats why Im asking. Im intersted in seeing the difference as the honda will be allowed in E-superstock. My mods are legal to race in that class.
BUT........ To think you can get 40-45 horsepower is pie in the sky. (at the wheel anyway) I got just under 32 horse at the wheel. Up 7 horse from stock. It takes serious money to get much more than that from the 250 twin on the ninja.
Its unrealistic to think that you (or anyone) will get much more than 5-8 horsepower increase over stock and keep it reliable enough to ride it on the street for more than 500 miles. Let alone keep it legal to race. (ya cant crack open the motor in race trim)
BTW the reason I can pull a 30% increase on the ninja is the same reason you will pull 30% on the honda. They are all detuned to meet emmisions worldwide. The ninja runs mega lean from the factory and is so quiet you cant hear it.
Theres a guy pulling 39 horse all motor (at the wheel) on his ninja but he has to rebuild it often,(every 500-750 miles) as he set the maxton mile record on it. I think hes near 55 horse with spray. He only gets to make a few runs on it, then has to rebuild it.
That is exactly what I am saying. The CBR250 is detuned more from the factory than the Ninja. You can only make so much power more on the Ninja than a stock bike because it has certain characteristics from the factory, namely, a higher compression ratio and a higher redline.

What I am talking about is a way to reliably bump the CBR250 up to around 40 bhp (I am ball-parking this number as it is 1/4 of the 160 hp that the CBR1000rr puts down- same cylinder specs as I described in my first post). I am not talking about requiring the bike to rev to the moon or run race gas, 91-93 octane pump fuel works in the 1000 so it would work in my plan as well (provided you got the fuel maps and injectors to keep the bike running at optimum A/F)

Imagine if you took a stock 250r Ninja and dropped the compression ratio to 10 to 1, then limited the redline to 10.5k rpm. Considering that bike as your baseline (with a significant reduction in performance from the current stock bike). It would take less work to see a larger percent increase from baseline than if you used the stock bike as your baseline. Basically, because the initial starting point is so low, but the hardware is still the same, more gains are made possible.

This is exactly the position the CBR250r is in from the factory. Not only does it have all of the limits to make it emissions legal, it also has further limits. If the bike had come from the factory with a 12.5 to 1 compression ratio and a 12k to 13k redline, it would produce about the same power as a Ninja, if not a bit more due to the more efficient EFI and more efficient valve/cam design. Then with the same mods as your Ninja, it would be on a level playing field.

One area you do have a point is the race-spec limits that prevent cracking open the motor. Such a limit does swing the match heavily in the Ninja's favor, as I am counting on the ability to pull the head for a bit of machining to make the power numbers I am stating.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Good luck to ya. I hope ya do pull 40 horse. I would imagine that mid 30's (wheel horsepower) is pushing it for a reliablity standpoint on a street bike. BUT the CRF is pulling darn near 40 ponies (at the crank) so Im sure its possible to get close to 40 at the wheel. Why not just swap motors and mod that motor?? Whats the difference between the two?? Anybody know??

The only problem i can see is the crf motor wont live near as long on the street and wont pass emmisions testing.
It seems to me that 40 ponies at the wheel is about the limit for a 250 cc 4 stroke. (all motor) Weather its 1 or 2 cylnder.

Im really interested in a cbr in E-superstock trim.

I guess we will know next year just by looking at the grids on E-superstock. I just wanted to know sooner.:p
 

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Also, where I live emissions aren't a concern. Mississippi will give you an inspection sticker if you ride up and ask for one and cops wont ticket you for exhaust noise (that I know of, I work with lots of Harley guys who have the loud pipes and they have never spoke of getting pulled over)

Basically, folks who ride bikes here are of the assumption that the louder you are, the safer (or cooler depending on the person) you are.

ETA; Maybe I should clarify. I know emissions are engine exhaust gas emissions, and MS doesn't test for compliance. Noise would be another factor that would make a certain mod illegal, and since we don't worry about exhaust noise either, that is not a concern.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Looks great. too bad you will have to rebuild it every 250 miles.

How about one making 40-45 horse for us trackday junkies??
You know the kind that we can use for a couple seasons (3000-5000 miles) before it needs rebuilt.
Im all about it.....can you hear me honda??
 

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I think having a CBR250r with an engine that makes 37-40 bhp, having the whole bike lightened by removing many of the unnecessary components that are there to make it street legal (drop it to around 325 lbs wet if possible) and replace some removable suspension components with aluminum instead of steel and it would be a great track bike. Take a bit more time and money and get RaceTech to revamp the suspension with compression and damping and spring rates matched perfectly for the rider's weight and riding style and the bike would be a bad a** track toy.

And btw, I played with mine this afternoon for about three hours going through some very twisty backroad at about 55-60 mph. The handling on the CBR is intuitive. I literally had to think where I wanted it to go and it went. No close calls, no near misses, I just pointed it and it begged for more. That was seriously the most fun I have ever had with my clothes on. I can't wait to tune the bike a bit and get some track time.
 

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Looks great. too bad you will have to rebuild it every 250 miles.

How about one making 40-45 horse for us trackday junkies??
You know the kind that we can use for a couple seasons (3000-5000 miles) before it needs rebuilt.
Im all about it.....can you hear me honda??
+1
That would be a joygasm inducing little track bike for the budget conscious.
 
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