[wjhall]

So I guess the reason for going for ABS is so that in an emergency, you should pretty much be able to grab the brake as hard as you can and the bike will come as quickly as possible to a controlled stop.

So far, in about 3k miles ive never had cause to brake hard enough for it to kick in, but I have thought i'd like to know what it feels like.

I think it would be a valuable/useful thing to know just how hard the bike can brake under wet and dry conditions, how the bike feels and how the weight of the bike and myself moves around under those conditions.

However, what i don't want to do is be at 60mph, grab the brake and suddenly find myself on the ground for whatever reason.

So, to what extent have you experienced the ABS kicking in? If unintentionally how was it? Or have you intentionally brakes hard for the reasons above, in which case how was that? Is it reasonable to grab the brake and expect the bike to stay in control with ABS? I know from experience during training that this isn't the case without it.

 

[jsonder]

It should release to prevent skidding of the tires when they start to lock up.

Start trying at 15 mph and work up to faster speeds. Let us know what you think after doing this.

 

[shisoshin]

mine has ABS brakes, which have proved effective
in low level emergency braking [actual events]
from which i have gone from being a little
sceptical about maintaining control of braking
[not of losing control of the bike] to enthusiastic
supporter of ABS breaking as on this bike..

there is an additional brake pad up front,
but the brakes function normally and well
without doing anything that would
put you "on the ground" as you say..

rear brake [on mine] is fairly weak
in typical riding uses, which is ok by me..
while they both kick in with strong braking,
it will stop quickly if applied really hard
and will lift the rear wheel up,,
but [in my experience] under control..

in my case accelerating uphill around a startionary
garbage truck in second [probably] when a bloke
wheeling two bins walked out right in front of me,
so it was a reflex type of response and i hit
the brakes hard [or i would have cleaned him up]
you know how they say 'it stopped on a penny'
well it was like that.. no discernible pause etc,
the bike just transferred its momentum and mass
thru the front forks into the road, stopping
very quickly, resulting in the back end
lifting up high, pausing a moment,
then dropping straight back down..

i then placed a foot on the ground..
aside from scowling at the prawn
who barged out from behind the truck
without looking, i had an inner smile
which spread to my face, caused by
the competency of black beauty
as she virtually stopped on a penny..

bear in mind, this was going up hill..
i am a re-entry motorcyclist with lots
of experience, but had a long break
out of the saddle until this new cbr250r
so i was somewhat of a novice there..

its hard to express this, but if you like,
the bike did it,, i was just riding her..

if you want to do your own testing,
and you sound like a novice, i suggest
progressively increasing your braking force
in a safe location.. anywhere without traffic,
or other distractions etc..

just start out riding normally and simply,
maybe to third gear, then throttle off
go down thru the gears and brake
lightly to bring yourself to a stop..

from there, as you get confident etc
take the revs up a bit at a time,
and brake a little bit harder each time..
use both brakes, and if you like,
try using just back brake [more tolerance]
then only front brake.. go for smoothness..

personally, i still treat the wet as the wet..
i dont think like, 'i have abs brakes' etc.
i suggest you approach the wet the same..

once youve satisfied yourself with testing
sessions and feel confident in your braking,
you could try the same thing on say, gravel,
ie, over a small area with some gravel on it..
like that.. dont go overboard testing it..
read test reports of experienced riders
who have tested the brakes as part of
their role as motorcycle test riders...

bottom line perhaps, treat braking with
the respect it deserves, but, know that
you have a lightweight well balanced
bike with disc brakes front and back
which are designed to prevent skidding..

[i have slammed the rear brake on alone,
which caused the back tire to do a fast
series of 'little hops' as it stopped..
so it will do that, but it stays in a
straight line, with balance etc]

i recommend these ABS brakes
to experienced or novice riders..

 

[Jme250RA]

i have gone from 140 kph to 0 kph as fast as possible. no problems. the bike was well balanced and not a big deal whatsoever. it just takes a minute for your eyes to shrink back into your sockets.

 

[wjhall]

Thanks for the reasuring comments, especially the lengthy reply from shisoshin.

Sounds like with a little practice i shouldnt need to worry about keeping control under hard braking.

Regarding some of the particular comments, yes it would be fair to say im a novice, but did do my full uk license on an SV650 without ABS. It was while practicing the emergency stop that i locked the rear wheel. The bike came to a stop but because of the locked wheel lost balance and i dropped it when it had stopped.

In the wet i certainly realise that even with ABS braking distances are going to be increased Regarding gravel, im not so sure, i herd ABS doesn't work so well on gravel.

Right, now i just need to find somewhere suitable to practice, not always easy in suburban UK

 

[Tyrian]

During the training for my A (>25kw motorcycle) license, the instructor first had me do emergency stops on an older Honda CB500 without ABS. He then had me do it on a Kawasaki ER-6n with ABS. Stopping distance when the ABS kicks in is longer than without; so to find the most efficient braking distance one still has to master braking controlled. That said, the ABS is an excellent 'Oh crap, hit it!' function and is definitely worth the money. I had it kick in quite a few times on the ER-6n - moments where I would have otherwise locked it up, panicked and probably had fallen off the bike.

 

[lewiCBR250R]

that's right - don't expect it to decrease stopping distance, it's there so your wheels don't lock, anti-lock, not reduce stopping distance although it will be better than most average riders wet and dry, with some being able to beat the ABS in the dry but i haven't heard of anyone beating it in the wet

Also, don't expect to be able to hit the brakes around a corner and expect to remain upright even with ABS, you don't have to lock the wheels around a corner to go wrong

 

[JapanRob]

After a close call with not even a split second to react, I am totally sold on ABS. No matter how experienced you are when you have no time to react and just slam on the brakes, ABS is a lifesaver IMHO.

 

[lewiCBR250R]

After a close call with not even a split second to react, I am totally sold on ABS. No matter how experienced you are when you have no time to react and just slam on the brakes, ABS is a lifesaver IMHO.

i agree it's a great asset, but most experienced riders wouldn't just slam on the brakes under emergency braking situations

 

[pete_falcone]

Firm squeeze always.

 

[Aufitt]

So I guess the reason for going for ABS is so that in an emergency, you should pretty much be able to grab the brake as hard as you can and the bike will come as quickly as possible to a controlled stop.

No, the reason for having ABS is to have a bike that has better braking under a wide range of conditions.
If you just 'grab the brakes as hard as you can' on any bike you've upset the suspension, weight transfer will be all out of shape, and rider will go down.

So far, in about 3k miles ive never had cause to brake hard enough for it to kick in, but I have thought i'd like to know what it feels like.
I think it would be a valuable/useful thing to know just how hard the bike can brake under wet and dry conditions, how the bike feels and how the weight of the bike and myself moves around under those conditions.
.

In 3k miles you've never braked hard?
Its not hard to activate it, but riding instructors should have taught this before letting riders get a licence.
'Brush and Bury' progressively loading the contact patch of the tyre at maximum traction.
This is where ABS shines, but if the bike is upset and the rider out of shape it aint worth sh!t.
ABS or not, its the same braking technique.
Do a rider training course again where they practice emergency braking before you find out the hard way that those skills are part of staying alive.

However, what i don't want to do is be at 60mph, grab the brake and suddenly find myself on the ground for whatever reason.

.

Practicing Emergency braking with with correct procedure you will be safely braking at 100mph.
By the time you feel the pulsing you should be braking correctly anyway.
'Grab the brake' you will be on the ground unless the gods are shining on you.
Do a rider training course.

So, to what extent have you experienced the ABS kicking in? If unintentionally how was it? Or have you intentionally brakes hard for the reasons above, in which case how was that? .

ABS kicks in any time I want it to given the right conditions.
All rider inputs should be intentional.
It is nice, Makes the 3kg penalty and $500 cost start to balance out.
Honda has made a good system.

Is it reasonable to grab the brake and expect the bike to stay in control with ABS? I know from experience during training that this isn't the case without it.

No it is very unreasonable to upset the balance of a motorcycle while braking, it sends you out of control.

All rider trainers will instruct riders of non-ABS bikes ABS bikes, pink bikes, purple bikes, big bikes, little bikes, ugly bikes, any bike-
exactly the same, regardless if its a learners test or a Superbike training school.

 

[wjhall]

No, the reason for having ABS is to have a bike that has better braking under a wide range of conditions.
If you just 'grab the brakes as hard as you can' on any bike you've upset the suspension, weight transfer will be all out of shape, and rider will go down.

I'm well aware that grabbing a handful of brake is a bad idea. However its impossible to know exactly how you'd react under real world emergency conditions regardless of how many times youve practiced emergency braking..

In 3k miles you've never braked hard?
Its not hard to activate it, but riding instructors should have taught this before letting riders get a licence.

Yeah, i guess that means im keeping an eye on the road ahead to anticipate approaching hazards and brake in time during my commute. The ABS in my car hardly ever kicked in unless i was driving inappropriately for the conditions. I'd be concerned about my driving if i had the ABS regularly kicking in as it'd imply i was regularly driving on the edge which probably isnt a good idea for regular commuting

Do a rider training course again where they practice emergency braking before you find out the hard way that those skills are part of staying alive.

I'm led to beleive that the direct access course in the UK is a bit more reigorous than the MSF course. However riding in a way doesnt give cause to perform any emergency stops doesnt mean I need to re-do the course, it's why im asking after practicing stops in private.

 

[Aufitt]

wjhall, please dont take my post too personally, but I did use your questions to cover alot of stuff thats fallen on deaf ears before and no disrespct to you.

Its just am very passionate about it and we've seen dozens of Abs threads.
Everything from both extremes with ppl saying they are 37% safer,
to saying the complete opposite and Abs takes longer to stop.
^Neither are true.

What is true is that abs can easily be felt while practicing Emergency stops (on a private road of course)
That brain training and reflex action will help those 'Oh faaark' moments because you'll know the limit.

 

[wjhall]

Aufitt, your post did read to me a little aggressive, apologies if I misinterpreted you

 

[Tyrian]

Firm squeeze always.

The important part is to build up the pressure - at least, that's how I was told to do it; but under stress no one is going to give him/herself the time to build that pressure up.

Everything from both extremes with ppl saying they are 37% safer,
to saying the complete opposite and Abs takes longer to stop.
^Neither are true.

I know they are making the riding safer, purely for the 'oh crap'-moments. But when an ABS kicks in it quickly stops the braking for split seconds (hence the 'tak, tak, tak, tak' sound); had one applied the braking pressure better, the ABS wouldn't have been necessary and one could have braked far better. But I don't think any one of us can apply the pressure controlled at any given time; sometimes we have to hit full; in such cases the ABS is a lifesaver.

 

[Jme250RA]

I'm well aware that grabbing a handful of brake is a bad idea. However its impossible to know exactly how you'd react under real world emergency conditions regardless of how many times youve practiced emergency braking..

I don't like how that statement is worded because with practice and real world experience you should know how you react. Since I have picked up this bike, 7000 kms ago, I have never been in an emergency situation that I didn't know how to react. This is not saying that I haven't been in emergency situations. I've been run out of my lane numerous times, had people run stop signs in front of me and so on but never once have I reacted in a way that was unexpected of myself. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[jsonder]

What the experienced riders are telling anyone who will listen is that regular "emergency" braking practice and muscle memory will save your butt when things go wrong on the road.

I believe them.

For the non-abs riders, if you've got the rear skidding, don't let off the rear brake until after you've stopped.

 

[CBR-STL]

What the experienced riders are telling anyone who will listen is that regular "emergency" braking practice and muscle memory will save your butt when things go wrong on the road.

I believe them.

For the non-abs riders, if you've got the rear skidding, don't let off the rear brake until after you've stopped.

Is this correct? I have non-abs and practice emergency braking all the time. I use the sound of the tires when they first start chirping or squeling (lock up) to back off the brakes. Well actually I don't try to get to the point necessarily but when it happens to the front or back I let off the brakes. I can't believe how quick my bike stops and how in control it feels while emergency braking compared to other bikes I have ridden. It is lighter and more modern than what I am used to. I basically hit the front and back brake at the same time and use about 80% of the stopping force by use of the front brake. Am I doing this right or just lucky I haven't crashed practicing braking?

 

[Wynne G Oldman]

I haven't seen any evidence that the same model non-ABS bike can stop quicker than the ABS model, no matter how experienced the rider is. Quite the opposite, in fact, from what I've seen so far. If there is any, please post it, I'd love to see it.

 

[jsonder]

Is this correct? I have non-abs and practice emergency braking all the time. I use the sound of the tires when they first start chirping or squeling (lock up) to back off the brakes. Well actually I don't try to get to the point necessarily but when it happens to the front or back I let off the brakes. I can't believe how quick my bike stops and how in control it feels while emergency braking compared to other bikes I have ridden. It is lighter and more modern than what I am used to. I basically hit the front and back brake at the same time and use about 80% of the stopping force by use of the front brake. Am I doing this right or just lucky I haven't crashed practicing braking?

Once the rear wheel starts "off on its own" (no longer tracking the front wheel) in a skid, letting off the rear brake is likely to cause a high side spill (rider thrown over the side of the motorcycle). It doesn't always happen, but it is very common. One of the drawbacks to a high side spill is that the bike may land on you.

That last part should give a thought to consider for folk removing the exhaust heat shield.