No Oil Damage! Engine makes noise.

1653 Views 41 Replies 6 Participants Last post by jkv357, 9 mo ago

Juann

Discussion Starter · 10 mo ago

So I’m dumb and put the oil filter in backwards and to make things worse and even dumber move I rode it for 50 miles!! Like that.
It turned off on me many times and now I put the oil filter in correctly and put 10w-40 because it’s thicker.

I don’t know what to do now.
I’ll have to get it rebuild and idk if I can do that, since it is my daily driver and I work 25 miles away.

i can replace the whole engine but I’ll need to take it to the shop since I won’t be able to do that, one guy said he’ll charge me 1200 for an engine swap to a 300cc cbr engine. I don’t trust that guy though.
I’ll need to check another spot.

last option is to sell the bike how it is right now and see how much I can get for it.

what would happen if I keep riding it like this? The oil level is good now and the oil filter is in the correct position.

thank you if you read this far, and yes those were foolish moves, i learned and now I want to do what I can to save money.

1 - 16 of 42 Posts

Tamir

· #4 · 10 mo ago (Edited)

Juann said:
and it sounds like a tick that gets louder and faster in higher rpms

Unfortunately, and as I already wrote to you in another thread (LINK), any further operation of the engine in such a condition will cause it further damage, and later on it can also be very dangerous:

An engine that explodes,
Or an engine that stops,

because if this happens while riding at high speed, it may end with severe bodily harm.

In my estimation, wear was caused in the bearings, and the noises are noises that are created when there is free-play in the bearings. This kind of free-play doesn't fix itself, it just gets exponentially worse by the minute.

Reactions: 1

Tamir

· #6 · 10 mo ago

Big Cahuna said:
I'm pretty sure what you're hearing is rod knock.

Yapppp...

Reactions: 1

Tamir

· #8 · 10 mo ago

DannoXYZ said:
Well, even professional mechanics have installed these filters backwards!!!

Yes, I can imagine it happening in 2011, when there was no accumulated knowledge about our model yet. When a young mechanic got to "practice" in changing oil and oil-filter on a 250 cc motorcycle, and then assemble the filter upside down.

But it's hard for me to see a professional mechanic taking such a motorcycle out to a customer without an inspection. They must check it before delivering the repaired motorcycle to the customer, and they check, and then a professional mechanic, the chief tester, can't miss that the engine noise has changed...

Later on they learned to be more careful with this issue.

In my opinion, today this can no longer happen in professional workshops.

Tamir

· #11 · 10 mo ago (Edited)

jkv357 said:
Pull the valve cover and take a look at the cam lobes for galling or heat discoloration.

Remove the oil and filter, and check the particle screen (not sure where that is, or how to get to it) for metal flakes. If you see bronze-colored flakes - it's toast.

jkv357 the two first tests you suggest include the disassembly of the valve cover, and the disassembly of the right engine cover. In order to access the top cover, you need quite a bit of tim work, and after all that work the access is still difficult. Access to disassembling the right cover is convenient, but there it involves more work and knowledge.
Your proposal requires a very high level of mechanics skills. Just saying so.

Tamir

· #12 · 10 mo ago (Edited)

jkv357 said:
Try to locate the area where the ticking sound is originating.
...
Rev the engine up and down to about 3000, and hold it around 2500 or so, when listening.

jkv357 Your third test is not helpful, because it is about further damage to the engine. In the situation that Juann described, you must not start the engine. Maybe a certified mechanic is allowed, just for a second.
A qualified mechanic would probably conclude that Big Cahuna and I have arrived.

P.S. And of course under no circumstances should you ride a motorcycle in such a condition to a mechanic, you should only get to him by towing!

Tamir

· #13 · 10 mo ago

Big Cahuna said:
Good advice by JKV.

If you get into checking the internal parts of machines an endoscope will be your best friend. They're cheap, like sub $20...
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07PBF6DX5?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Yes, this is definitely a beautiful gift for any mechanic, a beautiful tool.
I currently have the basic mechanical version, a pair of very useful tools that together cost me 7USD:

Product Azure Rectangle Font Line

See less See more

Reactions: 2

Tamir

· #15 · 10 mo ago

jkv357 said:
... so I don't think it's going to do any additional damage to run it enough to try to isolate the area the sound is coming from.

💖 YES BUT...
Any additional start is a harmful and unnecessary start for this engine, which has already suffered enough and is in the process of certain collapse.
If you want to leave a chance for a cheap repair of the damage caused until now
you don't start it.
At this stage minimizing the damage is the issue, and the continued curiosity to investigate will only add damage and not knowledge.
The problem is already known: Damage to the Big-Hand bearings, and probably also damage to the camshaft?...
Either way, it's not a situation that's getting better, it's just getting worse, it's not that the oil is changed and the situation stabilizes. With this type of damage, there is no escape from a general overhaul... or the other tips mentioned here like: Buying a used good engine, etc.

Tamir

· #17 · 10 mo ago

jkv357 said:
We need to confirm exactly what the damage is by removing the covers and check the parts visually.
...
If you are sure it's junk, why not try disassembling it yourself? What's to lose?

Yappp...You don't need to start the engine, and it is now possible to start opening it to assess whether it is worth repairing, or not worth repairing...
Note that both repair and replacement both start with the same procedure:
Disassembling the engine from the frame... so this is the next step...
either ways, it is a job that is not suitable for most amateur mechanics because it requires a high level of skills, knowledge, a respectable tool box, and of course a time and place to work in it.

Tamir

· #20 · 10 mo ago

DannoXYZ said:
ANYONE can do this by following instructions in manual. That's how amateur mechanics LEARN to become better amateur mechanics. If you never learn anything new, how will you get better? Manual is excellent and can guide brand-new mechanics who've never done any of this work.

A hobby always costs money, and does not save money, and tools cost money, and study time costs money, and the apprentice's mistakes cost money, and together it is an expenditure of money that is higher than getting a repair at a professional mechanic...just saying that.

Yes you are right anyone can...but...

Tamir

· #22 · 10 mo ago

jkv357 said:
The disassembly is easy

At CBR250R:

Is it easy to disassemble a valve cover with an engine inside the frame?
Is it easy to disassemble the engine from the frame?

So "easy" is a relative term. These two tasks are difficult for me.

Reactions: 2

Tamir

· #23 · 10 mo ago

Big Cahuna said:
it's always better to learn on a cheap, already broken motorcycle than an expensive one.

YES

Tamir

· #24 · 10 mo ago

Big Cahuna said:
Don't forget that these machines were engineered and built in a way that could be repaired by less-than-brilliant people... except maybe those that put their filters on backwards

Reactions: 2

Tamir

· #27 · 9 mo ago

Juann said:
i drained the oil and checked the filter and there’s no particles.

But the chips are in the strainer and not in the oil filter. Your stubbornness is important and useful, provided you invest it in the right direction. To get to the strainer you have to open the right engine cover, which is a job that requires not only patience, but also more skills.
I promise you that you will find there what you are looking for(metals chips). (LINK),

Food Automotive lighting Font Auto part Ingredient

According to the noise you describe, here:

Juann said:
and it sounds like a tick that gets louder and faster in higher rpms

I also assure you that the crankshaft bearings OR the connecting rod bearings, one of them must be destroyed.
Maybe both?

See less See more

Reactions: 1

Tamir

· #28 · 9 mo ago

2

P.S. Regarding the camshaft, this thread also ran here in the forum lately:

www.cbr250.net

Part name

Before i begin I’d like to start off with admitting that i have barely an idea of how engine work. So if i miss label something that’s my bad. So after working on my bike for 2 months and replacing a few parts i finally took the top engine cover to find the inlet camshaft has a bit of wear and...

www.cbr250.net

The camshaft does not have a separate bearing,
the entire mount is its bearing.

White Organism Font Map Line

Organism Font Line Auto part Engineering

See less See more

Tamir

· #32 · 9 mo ago

jkv357 said:
As Tamir noted, the screen under the side cover may be holding the damaged bearing particles, so you do need to pull the cover to check (after draining the oil). It is the only way to know the extent of the damage to the bottom end bearings.

Only in this case, again, according to the noises that described, we are not in a situation of maybe,
for sure there are chips in the strainer, a lot of chips.

To remove the right engine cover it is not enough to drain the oil, it is also necessary to drain the coolant, this is a job that requires a lot of knowledge and experience (relatively).

Reactions: 1

Tamir

· #34 · 9 mo ago

jkv357 said:
Draining the oil and coolant doesn't take an experienced technician, and neither does removing the cover.

JVK It's nice that you are so optimistic, or maybe everything seems so easy for you, the job of removing the right engine cover on a CBR250R(2013) is relatively complicated:

You need to drain both: the oil, and the coolant.
There is an issue with the clutch mechanism, and the spring. You have to keep the spring from falling into the engine, and then there is a problem of putting it back in place.
In the assembly there is an issue with the axis angle of the water pump.
In addition to the paper gasket, you need to replace 3 more O-Rings in three different sizes
Draining the coolant is easy, but you mustn't forget to bleed air bubbles when refilling.

But hey, do you remember? That cover, in that particular case, is not going to be assembly for some time, because the crankshaft bearings need to be replaced

Reactions: 1

1 - 16 of 42 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.