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Here's something interesting a fellow rider told me recently.

How much fuel sits in the hose at the pump? If you use a pump that shares one hose for different grades of fuel, you might find up getting two litres of regular before you start getting premium.

Ideally, you want a dedicated premium pump.
Speedway just started opening stations in my state. It's the first time in my life I've EVER seen one pump with 3 hoses, a dedicated one for each grade.
It was so unusual to see it actually confused me for a second.
 

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Let's throw some math at it and see, then.

Hoses in my area are around 3m long and about 4 cm across. Assuming half the radius is the hose itself, that gives us 942 ccs of fuel, or 0.942 L. And that's just in the external hose; there will be some fuel sitting in the pump itself as well.
Is that much an issue?

I've never seen a pump with more than 1 hose.

Premium is also most likely going to be older than the Regular grade, as it's not as commonly used.

Another reason NOT to use Premium unless you really need it. Many people are still under the (incorrect) impression that Premium is somehow a better quality gas and better for your engine. Some companies may add additional detergents, but generally it's nothing more than the regular gas with more octane. Unless you have a high performance engine that specifically calls for Premium fuel it's not giving you any benefit. If you don't, you are going to get less performance and economy at a higher cost.

Only time I go up in octane over the factory recommendation is to get away from ethanol.
 

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Is that much an issue?

I've never seen a pump with more than 1 hose.

Premium is also most likely going to be older than the Regular grade, as it's not as commonly used.

Another reason NOT to use Premium unless you really need it. Many people are still under the (incorrect) impression that Premium is somehow a better quality gas and better for your engine. Some companies may add additional detergents, but generally it's nothing more than the regular gas with more octane. Unless you have a high performance engine that specifically calls for Premium fuel it's not giving you any benefit. If you don't, you are going to get less performance and economy at a higher cost.

Only time I go up in octane over the factory recommendation is to get away from ethanol.
In my area, all stations used to have a separate pump for each grade of fuel. In more recent years, they moving to shared hose systems, but some of the older stations haven't made the upgrade.

The only reason I use premium is to get away from the government mandated ethanol, thus me posting this in a thread titled "Non-Ethanol Gasoline Availability." :p
 

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^From what I hear the top tier gas stations use less or no ethanol in their fuel. The lower the ethanol amount the better. However if the grocery store has low ethanol fuel I don't see a reason to not refuel there.
 

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^From what I hear the top tier gas stations use less or no ethanol in their fuel. The lower the ethanol amount the better. However if the grocery store has low ethanol fuel I don't see a reason to not refuel there.
They all will use pretty much the same percentage of ethanol, which is undisclosed, but "up to 10%", meaning, probably 10%. The real difference is the concentrations of additives to keep varnish away from the piston heads, fuel injectors, and cylinder. Top tier gas contains 50% more than the federal mandated minimum of those cleaners, which is 50% more than the no-name/unbranded gas.
 
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Ethanol-free 87 will give you the best power and economy - if you can get it.

Adding ethanol to gasoline leans the mixture and requires more fuel to achieve the proper mixture, which the fuel injection supplies. In an engine with a carb, ethanol fuel will make it run leaner.

Higher octane has no benefit unless you are detonating. You will make the most power with the lowest amount of octane required to just barely keep detonation away.

I run 87 octane without ethanol because it's available locally, but if I can't get it i will run whatever octane I have to in order to get ethanol-free gas.

I run the normal E10 in my cars, but all my small engines and cycles (especially if they have steel gas tanks) get ethanol-free gas.
 

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Ethanol-free 87 will give you the best power and economy - if you can get it.

Adding ethanol to gasoline leans the mixture and requires more fuel to achieve the proper mixture, which the fuel injection supplies. In an engine with a carb, ethanol fuel will make it run leaner.

Higher octane has no benefit unless you are detonating. You will make the most power with the lowest amount of octane required to just barely keep detonation away.

I run 87 octane without ethanol because it's available locally, but if I can't get it i will run whatever octane I have to in order to get ethanol-free gas.

I run the normal E10 in my cars, but all my small engines and cycles (especially if they have steel gas tanks) get ethanol-free gas.
Indeed. You wouldn't believe what just one season sitting with some of the gasahol we have around here did to a push-mower's tank.
 
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on additive differences [sydney] price cycles vary
between 110c/l and 140c/l, average about 120c/l..
but regardless of base price for the same petrol
there will be a consistent 17c extra for 95ron
then another 7c extra for 98ron.. [91 and 94pon]

ie, same base petrol + 17c additive pack in 95ron,
+ another 7c or 25c additive package in 98ron..

e-10 may be labelled '94ron' - in an attempt to mislead
motorists conditioned to think higher octane means
'higher power', 'better quality' 'premium' petrol..
 

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I've been wary of E10 gas all along, but my cars seems to do fine with it. I don't like using it in my cbr. There's a station about 8 miles from home that sells 100% unleaded gas. I try to stop there every chance but don't always make it, especially when on the road. The map MotoMike posted is helpful for those trips!
 

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depends what you mean by 'hurt'..
if, bike is left sitting idle with ethanol
in its tank for any length of time,
it will draw water in there which will
likely result in phase separation,
and creation of gums, thus may
result in rough running, poor or
failure to start or engine cut-outs..

if you ride regularly and dont leave your bike
sitting idle for any length of time, this will
likely not be a cause for concern..

if your ethanol blend is over 10% [which happens]
and you spill it on your paintwork, it will or can
damage it or fade it.. this can be avoided by
immediately and thoroughly washing it off
with water..

ethanol is just alcohol, as in whiskey etc..
but there are or can be negative aspects to
mass land use for fuel ethanol, such as
increased stock feed and grocery prices,
together with corruption of process
based on mandated ethanol..

i dont drink whiskey.. but dont hate it..
its just something out there i choose
not to use..
to each their own..
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
It won't hurt anything on this bike.
Maybe not in the short term, but we should all know by now that ethanol blended gas isn't stable for any length of time, and in a an off season storage (or infrequent use) situation, it can cause serious fuel system problems.

Any small engine will start & perform far better on pure, non-ethanol gasoline than the same engine will on an E10 gas blend. And while many of todays OEM small engine manufacturers will state that their fuel systems can tolerate up to 10% ethanol, many of these engine manufacturers also state in their O/M's that non-ethanol gasoline is the preferred fuel to use. Stihl AG is one example of an OEM which recommends non-ethanol fuel for use in it's gas powered equipment.

IMO, the whole 'corn ethanol as fuel' industry is just another government subsidized scam.
 

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Making ethanol out of corn in the US is a scam. But it has an EROEI of 8:1 in Brazil from Sugarcane so it is something we will use going forward into the mid future.
.
I have been running E10 in all my bikes for 6 years with zero issues. 50,000 miles on my CBR250R.
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And in my lawn mower with no stabilizer which sits for 4 months at a time for 23 years (until the deck rotted out) with no problems.
.
It did damage the cheap fuel hose on my weed eater after 15 years. $6 to replace it with a modern silicone hose kit from Lowes.
 

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mate there are blokes who tell you;
"ive been smoking for 50 years
and it never did me any harm"..

advertisements for ddt used to show children
being happily doused with ddt, to demonstrate
that ddt did them no harm..

i recall friends and others working with asbestos
who thought 'its all bull5hit' [asbestos harm]..
women employed to paint luminous radium on
watch dials were told it was harmless..
and was, for decades, until they started
dying from radiation induced cancers..

some drunks swear blind they can drive
[even better] with alcohol in their system..

proponents of ethanol fuel tell you its gods gift,
and yet theres 'recreational-90' [in usa] intended
for small engines and marine engines for which
ethanol is often not recommended..
similarly for light aircraft engines..

my cbr250r engine cut-outs faded away
after switching to 91ron no ethanol..
coincidence, maybe..

i dare say that a person who has used ethanol
for years with no problems would tend to be
someone likely to maintain and ride their
bike 'well',, similarly if riding for years
using pure petrol..

according to what seem to be authorative
understandings, ethanol generates less
power, even tho slower burning [higher
octane], thus must be less fuel efficient,
regardless of riding habits etc..

and it is hydrophilic, 'water loving' and will
draw water into petrol tanks and petrol..
its a matter of degree, influenced by how
fresh and how well stored is the petrol,
then how long if ever it is left sitting
motionless in a bikes tank, etc..

i support a persons right to choose..
which must also include a right to know
what their options might be..
thus the endless questions in motoring
and suchlike groups and websites etc,
about using ethanol in their car, bike,
boat, aircraft, generators, atv, jetski,
etc etc..

to each their own..
i choose pure petrol for my engines,
which hasnt done them any harm
in 50 years on the road..
 

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Ethanol is only a problem if left sitting around for at least a month or two. During riding season, just ride often enough to burn a tank a month. I go through a tank every 10 days on average from March til November then use ethanol free Chevron 94 in the winter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Wow! you guys are really bent about E10:D. The question on this forum is, does it hurt the CBR250? The answer is, definitely not.
Actually the original post of this thread didn't ask the question, 'does it (E10) hurt the CBR?'. Rather, the opening post of the thread simply provided a link to the pure-gas.org website, which lists fuel retailers in the U.S. & Canada offering non-ethanol gasoline.

Not surprisingly, the thread naturally morphed into a discussion of the pro's of non-ethanol gas and the con's of ethanol blended fuel. And going back and reading through the entire thread it's pretty clear that the majority posts do not see E10 as beneficial in any way.
 

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I have come to agree, from my own experience, with the majority here that ethanol in fuel is a significant detriment. Especially living in an area of the country where off-season storage of equipment is a necessity. It's definitely caused problems in my lawnmowers and snow blower in the past and I'm convinced it was a major cause of the hesitation problems I had with my CBR this riding season.
While I treat and completely fill my tank for storage during the winter months, during the riding season there can be days and even weeks where my tank is less than filled with untreated gas and I strongly believe that the hydrophilic quality of gas with ethanol has been a major contributor to the ONLY problems I've seen in my 2011 CBR250R since it was first purchased new.
This is now more than just a "suspicion" for me. I plan on dis-assembling my tank next spring and I have little doubt I will find evidence to support 10% ethanol gas sitting untreated in a less than full tank for even a few months during the riding season as the cause.
Going forward I plan on taking Mike's excellent suggestion of purchasing and storing non-ethanol gas in 5 gallon containers, which will have the added benefit of allowing me to keep my gas tank completely filled - with ethanol-free gas - at ALL times during the riding season.
 

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I haven't followed this whole thread, so the point may have already been made. Ethanol has about 67.7% of the energy content of gasoline on a volume basis. Adding 10% ethanol to gasoline reduces the energy content of the mixture to 96.7% that of pure gasoline. So you will get 3.3% less economy and 3.3% less range from a full tank of E10 fuel.
 
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