[Boss250]

Hey guys. I have been lurking for a while, and finally signed up because it seemed this site (out of 3, I think) had the most useful info re: the CBR250.

Anyway, like many of you I put down a deposit seemingly forever ago and have been anxiously awaiting the arrival of the bikes, not only as a new rider, but as a person with no other transportation. I have been checking in with my dealer every so often and putting down money toward the bike as I get it so it doesn't get spent elsewhere. When I put my deposit down, I was number 6 on the list which didn't seem like a big issue since 10 bikes were ordered, but then events unfolded as you all know and now the only thing that IS certain is that no one will get near as many of these bikes as they ordered.

Yesterday, after calling to check in with my dealer, he essentially told me three things:

1. We still don't know when the bikes are coming, or which ones we'll get (that one was known and expected by me)

2. We might not get as many bikes as we ordered (duh), so with a #5 slot on the wait/deposit list, I may not even get a bike when it's all said and done.

3. "With the limited availability situation, Honda may want more for the bike."

Obviously, I take issue with number 3. I work for a Honda car dealer and know that "Honda" isn't asking for more money, the greedy dealer will be. MSRP is set at $3999 so people entering the sport can afford to buy in, so Honda who set that price strategically is not going to raise it. It appears that the ninjette phenomenom might be taking shape again with Honda's 250. In case no one knows what I am talking about, it's how during the first two years of the Ninja 250, demand far exceeded production, and dealers were marking the bikes up $1-2 grand or more. They were gouging.

I don't want to be gouged, especially after waiting all this time and really need to bike to stay the price quoted when I put down the deposit since raising the price will mean needing more time to get money together, less riding time, and possibly missing out on the bike altogether. In order to better my chances and have a plan B that doesn't involve the Ninja, I am putting down another deposit at another dealer.


Any input on how to avoid the gouging?

 

[Eggs]

Welcome. Im kind of in that boat, along with the fact that if the date gets pushed any further Im going with my plan B. My plan B is the ninja, living in Canada my riding season is only so long and im a new rider so I really wanna get out there. Only thing I could suggest would be not to take **** from the dealer and bargain back. Or let him know since you are a new rider that you're going to be a "lifetime" customer even if you're not.

 

[TowJam]

Find another dealer. It's one thing for a dealer to leverage a seller's market but it's another thing for a dealer to lie. If a manufacturer "wants more for the bike", they they adjust the MSRP accordingly.

 

[Xplorguy]

Boss250! It is highly unlikely, but not impossible , that Honda is going to change their announced MSRP for the 2011 Model year. Having said that, it may be legal for the dealer to ask for more than MSRP for the bike just a car dealers sometimes do on popular models or just as more room to negotiate. Question: do you have a signed sales agreement that ideally would have come as a result of your deposit?
Assuming no agreement in writing...you will have to find out what the total out the door will be. It the result doesn't work for you, take your deposit elsewhere..quickly.

 

[Boss250]

I don't have anything in writing except the receipts for all of the money I have deposited and put down. With this last factor of gouging, I think it may be the straw that breaks the camel's back, but I REALLY don't want to get a ninja. They aren't bad bikes, but I like everything about the Honda so much more. Plus, I can't be sure, but I speculate that with the fuel injected Ninja already in production for everyone except the U.S. and Honda and Hyosung sporting FI on their 250's, it won't be long before Kawi brings their FI 250 to the U.S. I also suspect that the arrival of the FI Kawi will lower the value of the carbed versions already out there and if I have to get a Ninja, I'd at least like one with FI.

So, the grim outlook shows either no CBR250 due to production delays, low fulfillment, gouging for 2011, and/or hoping Kawi brings an affordably priced FI Ninjette to the market early next year so I can get one. Both scenarios mean I will be without a bike, and without transportation for much longer than I had hoped.

 

[Eggs]

That is exactly my problems with the Ninja, the Honda has made almost everything on it more recent and better than the ninja. I would expect Kawi to bring the FI next year but they havent because itll drive the cost up, which would also suck. If I had to get a ninja now perhaps a used one would be the better idea.

 

[kutter]

I don't think my dealer could raise my price with a signed sales agreement in my possession. With $869 in extra BS charges on top of the ABS MSRP they won't need to.

 

[Xplorguy]

I don't have anything in writing except the receipts for all of the money I have deposited and put down. With this last factor of gouging, I think it may be the straw that breaks the camel's back, but I REALLY don't want to get a ninja. They aren't bad bikes, but I like everything about the Honda so much more. Plus, I can't be sure, but I speculate that with the fuel injected Ninja already in production for everyone except the U.S. and Honda and Hyosung sporting FI on their 250's, it won't be long before Kawi brings their FI 250 to the U.S. I also suspect that the arrival of the FI Kawi will lower the value of the carbed versions already out there and if I have to get a Ninja, I'd at least like one with FI.

So, the grim outlook shows either no CBR250 due to production delays, low fulfillment, gouging for 2011, and/or hoping Kawi brings an affordably priced FI Ninjette to the market early next year so I can get one. Both scenarios mean I will be without a bike, and without transportation for much longer than I had hoped.

After re-reading your original thread I am thinking you should request that your dealer give you an agreement that includes MSRP plus whatever additional costs (hopefully these would be no more than what you are expecting). If the dealer is truly concerned that Honda may change his costing...then have him write it up as MSRP plus the additional costs rather than a specific dollar amount. When the bike comes in, everyone will know what MSRP is ( and I don't think it will change from current published).
I think you are right that Kawi will eventually switch the U.S. bike over to FI but maybe at additional cost...and not this 2011 model year?

The other possibility after going through the above exercise is to look at other Honda dealers and getting a fair price from them.....

 

[Boss250]

I called another dealer Tuesday (I had visited on the way home from a work training seminar a couple of weeks ago), and talked to the guy who I met when I had stopped by. He said that it's a bunch of crap that the other dealers are trying to gouge with bikes they don't even have yet and to come see him with a deposit to be first on his list. So, I will be headed over there Friday or Saturday, whichever I can swing first since I have to borrow a car to get there.

I see in another thread that tier 5 dealers are receiving their first wave now. Not sure which tier level either of the dealerships I will have made deposit with are at, but hopefully one of the two will pan out.


BTW, does anyone know about how far apart the waves will be for the bikes coming in and am I correct in thinking that there will be a point in summer where if you didn't get a bike, you won't be able to get one until 2012?

 

[Xplorguy]

Hey Boss250, since JDM is taking delivery tomorrow you can ask him what his MSRP is. Then you will at least know that is not changing. I know nothing about this tier business. Good luck to you and be sure to keep us posted........

 

[pharm4life]

my dealer told me straight up from the beginning, they're selling at 500 over MSRP. there's really not much i can do about it, they're the only powersports dealer around and going elsewhere would result in longer delays and whatnot. with gas prices spiking like they are i dont want to risk waiting another couple months. its unfortunate, but the alternative would be a) get a kaw or b) dont get one at all

 

[ou8jonesy]

Personally I'm surprised that Honda is allowing the raised pricing or if they are aware of it. I know Supply and Demand concept but hate seeing dealers take advantage of people, especially in these economical times. All I can say is I understand why someone like pharm4life will pay the extra. Just keep that in the back of your mind when you buy your next bike. Bargaining power for you if you go to the same dealer.

 

[pharm4life]

yeah ou, its def not what i wanted but its the hand im dealt..... if/when i get another one in the future i'll likely get a used one, but this wasnt the option for the 250

i havent heard anything from the dealer yet but im super stoked

the 1.99% APR they're offering is a plus as well

 

[morphman]

You guys are giving down payments without knowing what you'll be charged?

With all due respect, Why in the world would you guys be giving a dealer a down payment without having a contract and knowing the exact final OTD price?

If you have nothing in writing, the dealer can easily tack on another $1000 in fees and refuse to refund your down payment if you complain and want to go elsewhere.

Seriously guys, this is rule number one in the book Contracts for Dummies.

These bikes look like a blast but I'll be waiting until they are on the market for a few months and all of the new riders who decide they don't like riding or want a bigger bike, along with the poor people who can't afford to keep them, start dumping them on craigslist and ebay for 40% off MSRP!

 

[ou8jonesy]

I have all my stuff in writing (bill of sale). As for finding these on craiglist or eBay for 40% off, I think you are dreaming. The Ninja has a stupid high resale value and I expect this bike will be no different. Especially if Honda can't keep up with demand. Just my thoughts.

 

[kutter]

Pharm, How much are they charging for all the other little add ons? Mine charged me MSRP but $869 in prep, title, delivery, etc, etc.

 

[morphman]

I have all my stuff in writing (bill of sale). As for finding these on craiglist or eBay for 40% off, I think you are dreaming.

Well if I'm dreaming, don't wake me.. It seems to be working for me based on the four bikes in my garage.

The Ninja has a stupid high resale value and I expect this bike will be no different. Especially if Honda can't keep up with demand. Just my thoughts.

Not sure if you are aware that the last couple of years have been the some of the worst years ever for motorcycle sales. The discounts on bikes are pretty incredible... certainly the CBR250r will demand a premium price in the beginning but that wont last.

You can buy a new Ninja 250 for way under MSRP right now... I almost bought a new KLX250SF for $3399 OTD.. They are all over ebay for around $3500.. The MSRP is something like $5100. I could have purchased a brand new Versys for $5099... MSRP is $7100.

The economy is forcing prices lower.. The deals are out there is you look for them.. Maybe I just have a knack for finding deals or get lucky a lot but if my interest is still peaked 8 months from now I'll find myself a CBR250r with 1000 miles on it for $2200... Wait and see.

 

[Eggs]

kutter : $869!? of MSRP. Mine was $435 for freight, prep and everything plus tax.
ou8jonesy: How much was your freight? Since your in my region I want to see if they are identical.

 

[Eggs]

Kawi had $598 for freight on a Ninja 250 plus tax.

 

[pharm4life]

You guys are giving down payments without knowing what you'll be charged?

With all due respect, Why in the world would you guys be giving a dealer a down payment without having a contract and knowing the exact final OTD price?

If you have nothing in writing, the dealer can easily tack on another $1000 in fees and refuse to refund your down payment if you complain and want to go elsewhere.

Seriously guys, this is rule number one in the book Contracts for Dummies.

These bikes look like a blast but I'll be waiting until they are on the market for a few months and all of the new riders who decide they don't like riding or want a bigger bike, along with the poor people who can't afford to keep them, start dumping them on craigslist and ebay for 40% off MSRP!

fear not, my situation is not as you described it

Pharm, How much are they charging for all the other little add ons? Mine charged me MSRP but $869 in prep, title, delivery, etc, etc.

tax/title etc out the door im looking at 5200 TOTAL.