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At first service (1000km) my dealer used Motul 5100, being a noob to bike mechanics I figured I'd leave it to dealer to choose. The Motul is a 15w-50 vis rating is there any advantage/disadvantage to this over the Mobil 1's 10w-40?
 
At first service (1000km) my dealer used Motul 5100, being a noob to bike mechanics I figured I'd leave it to dealer to choose. The Motul is a 15w-50 vis rating is there any advantage/disadvantage to this over the Mobil 1's 10w-40?
Motul is excellent oil, but I wouldn't run a 15W-50. Recommended is 10W-30, but I personally would run a quality synthetic 5W-40 (Rotella T6) or 10W-40 (Motul, Mobil 1 4T, Castrol 4T).

There has been some talk about a "5500 RPM rattle", mostly after the 600 mi service. If it turns out to be coming from the rocker arms as some think, a heavier oil like a synthetic 40-grade may help with an increase in viscosity and oil pressure.
 
Motul is excellent oil, but I wouldn't run a 15W-50. Recommended is 10W-30, but I personally would run a quality synthetic 5W-40 (Rotella T6) or 10W-40 (Motul, Mobil 1 4T, Castrol 4T).

There has been some talk about a "5500 RPM rattle", mostly after the 600 mi service. If it turns out to be coming from the rocker arms as some think, a heavier oil like a synthetic 40-grade may help with an increase in viscosity and oil pressure.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
At the risk of posting another noob question, I am thinking that if I change to a 5W-40 or 10W-40, I should also change the oil filter at the same time.....yes? also the manual recommends that this be done by professional because it requires "specialized tools" is this just about the torque wrench settings(I own a torque wrench) or do you need special tool to remove oil filter(didn't look like it in the manual but you never know)
 
Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
At the risk of posting another noob question, I am thinking that if I change to a 5W-40 or 10W-40, I should also change the oil filter at the same time.....yes? also the manual recommends that this be done by professional because it requires "specialized tools" is this just about the torque wrench settings(I own a torque wrench) or do you need special tool to remove oil filter(didn't look like it in the manual but you never know)
I wouldn't worry about changing to 40-grade if you just had a change done (unless it's 50 degrees or below) , but next time around I would personally go to a 40. I always do a filter with the oil change. If you ride in lower temps (below 50-ish) you want the 5W-40. 10W is fine most of the time, but the lower viscosity of the 5W lets cold oil move faster and prevent start-up wear. 5W is just fine in hot temp also. They are the exact same (40-grade) when the engine is at operating temp (hot).

As far as "special tools" go - not sure about that, but it would be really dumb on Honda's part. Sometimes I think the owner's manual is designed more as advertising for the service dept. than anything.

Get accustomed to doing your own maintenance. Buy a Service Manual and whatever tools are needed to get the job done. For stuff like valve adjustment the dealer may be required, but for all of the other maintenance stuff plan on learning to do it yourself.

You have to rely on yourself to keep everything adjusted properly, and can't be making an appointment to run to the dealer for every chain adjustment, tire pressure check, and oil change.


Jay
 
Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
At the risk of posting another noob question, I am thinking that if I change to a 5W-40 or 10W-40, I should also change the oil filter at the same time.....yes? also the manual recommends that this be done by professional because it requires "specialized tools" is this just about the torque wrench settings(I own a torque wrench) or do you need special tool to remove oil filter(didn't look like it in the manual but you never know)
You should ALWAYS change the filter when changing the oil, it doesn't really make any sense not to. Also, if I remember correctly, the owner's manual says to change the filter every time you change the oil (unless I'm thinking of the Ninja's manual since I've been doing a lot of work on a Ninja 250r lately).
 
Just find the Happy medium.. use synthetic after 6000kms,
Or change more regularly than the 12,000 recomended.
12,000 is too long for non synthetic.... to long for any single but thats Hondas call.

I raced TTR's at top level enduro racing for many years and never ran synthetic in engines that were modified (flat slide carb, port work, higher compression and putting out 24hp at the wheel) to run strong all day. Just on on Castrol 4T with never a problem... not even a rebuild in 2 yrs racing. clutches and gearboxes loved it too.
im assuming the minerals 10w-30 work best on the bike itself comparing to actualy replace them with a full syn lube ? is that what u were trying to explaine? we'll need more factual explanation, thx though :D
 
im assuming the minerals 10w-30 work best on the bike itself comparing to actualy replace them with a full syn lube ? is that what u were trying to explaine? we'll need more factual explanation, thx though :D
Meaning, Honda do not recommend or require Fully synthetic oil.
(Pages 41 & 104)
SAE 10W-30 SG or higher.

Some engines require special fully synthetic snake oil.. the cbr does not.

Semi synthetic is not an inferior lubricant, it actually does a better job of keeping particles suspended in the oil.

Only bit I'd go against Honda is I'll be changing mine at 4000km, 8000km then 12,000km. Its the secret to engine longevity.
 
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impure

tollarja said:
... In the end it probably doesn't matter, but there is a perceptible difference between "semi" and full synthetic. Or maybe there isn't.
+Oh, there definitely is, (though I understand pteradactyl toenails have unique lubricating qualities).

A few years ago, blenders (with Castrol in the lead) won the right to label their products as "full synthetic", thereby throwing a veil over the eyes of consumers, who didn't (and still don't) know that "full" didn't mean "pure" or "100%".

If anyone wants a dealer cost quote for AMSOIL, ping me direct.

Ride on.
Roadkill
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_10254.JPG
 
MOMs coming to the API (maybe she'll bake cookies)

+Perhaps we'll start seeing some consistency in the ongoing oil debates soon...

"ORLANDO, Fla. - The American Petroleum Institute is on the verge of launching a national motor oil quality program to educate industry and consumers, license oil distributors and installers, and encourage state regulators to require the same disclosures for bulk oil as for bottled oil.

Kevin Ferrick, manager of API's Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System, told the Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association annual meeting here last week that API has transformed Shell's Motor Oil Matters
program into an industry-wide, non-brand-specific campaign.

The goals, said Ferrick, are to educate marketers, distributors and installers on the importance of oil quality; identify quality motor oils from the point of manufacture to installation; give credibility to the marketers, distributors and installers making and handling quality oils; explain how quality oils limit or prevent liability claims; and identify off-spec oils in the market."

See the full 10/26/11 LUBE REPORT article, "At API, Motor Oil Really Matters"
By Nancy DeMarco here:

http://www.imakenews.com/eletra/mod_print_view.cfm?this_id=2247337&u=lng&show_issue_date=F&issue_id=000550015&lid=bkb0FCC&uid=bbV6BC50
or
http://tinyurl.com/MOMatAPI

Ride on.
Roadkill
 
A mechanic that used to work on my turbo 6cyl. car once told me that once you use a synthetic oil in an engine you can't go back to mineral oil. Can't remember his logic, to long ago.
Truth or fiction?
 
+Oh, there definitely is, (though I understand pteradactyl toenails have unique lubricating qualities).

A few years ago, blenders (with Castrol in the lead) won the right to label their products as "full synthetic", thereby throwing a veil over the eyes of consumers, who didn't (and still don't) know that "full" didn't mean "pure" or "100%".

If anyone wants a dealer cost quote for AMSOIL, ping me direct.

Ride on.
Roadkill
[URL]http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_10254.JPG[/URL]
True, but "hydrocracked" synthetics are still pretty darn good! Considerably better than typical conventional oils IMO.

As I understand it, in some European countries "hydrocracked" synthetics are not allowed to be marketed as "synthetic".

Motul Ester-based synthetics (API Group V) would be one example of a top-notch "true 100% synthetic" oil.

Rotella T6 synthetic (API Group III) is one example of a "hydrocracked" synthetic.

In between are "PAO"-based oils (API Group IV)

The Rotella T6 is about 1/2 the price of the Motul synthetic.


Jay
 
2nd oil change with Mobil 1

I did my second oil change with 5327 miles on the bike. The Mobil 1 4T that was in there since 800 miles looked very good coming out. Still amber. No grey or metal shavings that the first oil change had. Very little usage. I never added any and it may have been only about 100ml lower than it was initially.
 
Undoubtedly, synthetic oil is "better" than conventional oil. Typically, it has a better base stock, better shearing resistance through its VIIs (viscosity index improvers), better at keeping contaminants in suspension, better at maintaining surface film lubrication, higher flashpoint, etc.

But.

I'm a big believer in Honda quality, and with proper oil change intervals, the 250R's engine will last a very long time with conventional oil. Perhaps it will last even longer if synthetics are used over its lifetime (though not empirically a given), but will you really be keeping the bike that long?

If synthetics allowed the engine/transmission to last, for example, 100,000mi instead of 90,000mi with dino oil, does that offset the additional cost of synthetic oil?

Now here's the part where I sound like a hypocrite: after break-in, I plan on using nothing but a synthetic 0-weight for as long as I own my bike. I get satisfaction from extracting all the performance and efficiency from my vehicles as I possibly can, which is how I justify the additional cost.

Everyone needs to make their own cost/benefit analysis and decide from there.
 
Undoubtedly, synthetic oil is "better" than conventional oil. Typically, it has a better base stock, better shearing resistance through its VIIs (viscosity index improvers), better at keeping contaminants in suspension, better at maintaining surface film lubrication, higher flashpoint, etc.

But.

I'm a big believer in Honda quality, and with proper oil change intervals, the 250R's engine will last a very long time with conventional oil. Perhaps it will last even longer if synthetics are used over its lifetime (though not empirically a given), but will you really be keeping the bike that long?

If synthetics allowed the engine/transmission to last, for example, 100,000mi instead of 90,000mi with dino oil, does that offset the additional cost of synthetic oil?

Now here's the part where I sound like a hypocrite: after break-in, I plan on using nothing but a synthetic 0-weight for as long as I own my bike. I get satisfaction from extracting all the performance and efficiency from my vehicles as I possibly can, which is how I justify the additional cost.

Everyone needs to make their own cost/benefit analysis and decide from there.
I was with you up to that point.

Unless you are running in extremely low temps, 5W is fine. 10W is too heavy for anything below 40 degrees IMO.

I always run top-quality synthetic oil in almost everything (even my snowblower), and just changed to 0W synthetic in the cars for winter (20 degrees and way below). You can run 0W year-round also, but I will usually run 5W synthetic over the summer because of the lower cost.

Are you planning to go with a 0W-30? Who makes a 0W cycle oil? I'm assuming you are planning on using a cycle oil and not an auto oil - right?


Jay
 
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