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That makes absolutely no sense whatever, "car oil" touched lots of parts in all mine and my friends bike with nothing but excellent results, I shudder at the cost had all those changes had been at $ 5.00 per qt. On what exactly, other than your opinion, do you base your statement? The FZ in question without a doubt ran far hotter than your liquid cooled CB and neither bikes are over stressed unless abused or neglected. Synthetic is indeed in some ways and uses a better oil, but at what cost and how is that enormous extra cost justified by everyday owner results?
 
According to my rough calculations, my friend, had he used a synthetic for all of his changes would have exactly the same condition bike he now has, the only difference would be the approx $1,600 more he would have had to shell out for these changes. What advantage, other than him maybe -Feeing better about it-would that grand and a half have afforded him?
 
At $5/qt, $1600 buys 320 qt or perhaps 160 oil changes ... at 3000 miles/change that's 480,000 miles ... but we're talking a price delta here, so more like 960,000 miles ... sure you got that math right?
 
Great, so I'm an idiot when it comes to math, I defy you to disprove the basic points I have made here, show me a case where an engine has been well maintained, and not abused, has failed or worn any faster than one using a synthetic lubricant, you would have to be at the end of milages not attained by the average user, and perhaps not even then. I'm certain that any calculations that you come up with will also show substantial savings with standard ( non synthetic - non motorcycle ) type oils. By the way, the basic inexpensive "diesel" 15-40 oils ( Rotella, Delvac, etc ) at a little over a dollar a qt have shown to be as good if not better than $5 to $10 a qt non synthetic motorcycle oils----look it up.
 
You are mostly correct - today's conventional oils are very good. Rotella conventional 15W-40 is excellent for most standard cycle engines in warm climates - but not the best choice for the CBR because it's a 40-grade - 30 is better for the CBR.

One factor that you might not be considering is the small quantity of oil the CBR holds - which reduces the life of the oil and makes it run hotter. A synthetic oil has advantages in that situation, as it doesn't lose viscosity if overheated like a conventional oil does.

Synthetic oils have advantages mostly in severe conditions. They are stronger overall and lubricate better at the extreme ends (hot and cold) of temperature ranges.

If an engine always starts up at 80 degrees and operates under moderate load with adequate cooling it won't benefit much from synthetic oil.

If that's not the case, there are advantages to running synthetic.
 
Im using a semi synth now in my Ninja as my sponsor hooks me up with it.
Its still very expensive, that drum is $300 (probably $15 per litre retail here in Au)



But i'd like someone to prove to me why a dedicated mineral oil like GN4/Yamalube/Active 4T etc (which the manufacturers recommend) is not as good as a synthetic for these low hp commuter engines like the cbr or Ninja?

AS for a full synthetic, you could not pay me to use it, seen the inside of too many engines all gummed up with full synthetic, as opposed to engines with regular mineral oil changes that are as clean as the day they come from the factory.
*Yes when I was young I bought far too much snake oil thinking I was doing the right thing before my mechanic showed me the light.

There has been many threads on here of engine oil problems (fails/burning oil) have all been where the owner has used full synthetic thinking their engine needs it.
 
Jkv, it's true, I have never been able to see the logic in building a small high revving hard working engine with what seems to be the absolute minimum oil capacity, especially considering the outrageously extended oil change intervals. This bike should have a large finned oil pan with a 3qt capacity, and even then it should be changed more often than 8k miles.
 
Synthetic has sexier girls in the advertisments,

Remember the Rock oil ads from the 1990's?
 
AS for a full synthetic, you could not pay me to use it, seen the inside of too many engines all gummed up with full synthetic, as opposed to engines with regular mineral oil changes that are as clean as the day they come from the factory.
None of today's quality oils - conventional or synthetic - will do that if you change them regularly. If you stretch the oil change intervals to the max, like some people do with synthetics, the oil will be completely full of contaminants and your additive package will deteriorate. At that point you will get sludge.

I have use numerous synthetic oils over the years, and my 120,000 mi auto engine (synthetic since almost new) has absolutely no sludge under the valve cover. It's just as clean as it was on day 1.

There's no magic to this. Some oils are better than others, but most of today's oils are more than adequate for normal conditions at reasonable change intervals.

There's nothing wrong with synthetic oils.
 
But my question is whats wrong with mineral oils?
and why do (Japanese) BIKE manufacturers recommend it/warrant it?

Even R6's which are probably the most highly strung engine available today.
 
Has anyone got an R6 or cbr60rr owners mnual here?

would like to see what its requirements are, and how it compares to the Ninja or Cbr250 (which are very low stressed engines)
 
But my question is whats wrong with mineral oils?
and why do (Japanese) BIKE manufacturers recommend it/warrant it?

Even R6's which are probably the most highly strung engine available today.
Conventional oils are adequate for most conditions - that's why they recommend it.

Not too long ago BMW had issues with some of their M-Power engines, and changed the recommendation to synthetic from conventional as part of the fix.

Bike manufacturers also recommend their brand of oil over all others - are they better? Usually not, but it pays the bills...

Look at the recommended service intervals - are those reasonable? I'd say usually not to that as well. Manufacturers are trying to sell you a reliable machine that isn't maintenance intensive, so they will stretch oil change intervals and sometimes not require a new oil filter with every oil change.

Are those good ideas? Not in my book. But everyone can decide for themselves if they want to follow the service recommendations to the letter.
 
Yes I don't adhere to service intervals, my race bike gets oil every 2-3 days and a filter every second oil change.

My street bikes get changed at 4000km instead of 12,000.

But Honda/Yamaha/kawasaki don't want engines failing, so they specify the oil for the job, not for 'most' conditions, they have to warrant for 'All' conditions,
If they want to make more money they would say to use full synthetic.

my cbr ran like clockwork, never used a drop of oil and revved its tits off.
None of the 'rattles' we hear about here or the 'struggles do more than 80mph'.
It did 171 kph indicated with std gearing and more with the 13T (but thats cheating)
Its gearbox was very slick too, and I never used the clutch up or down gears.

I sold it with 8000 on the clock, 3500km+ was track work.
That engine runs as good as ever to this day and the new owner is still loving it with almost 20,000 on it, bet its till running in 20 yrs time.. its a Honda.
 
On my oil-cooled Buell XB9S, there was a fan behind the rear cylinder that would turn on when the oil temperature reached a certain point. It pulled the heat from the rear cylinder and then turned off when the motor was cool enough.

When I changed to pure synthetic oil, the fan did not turn on nearly as often as before. The synthetic oil did a better job cooling the motor and transferring the heat. I was surprised by the difference.

Having said that, the CBR250R has a radiator and fan which do a better job regulating the engine temperature than the oil cooler did on the Buell. So even though I prefer synthetic oil, there really might not be a need to switch over for my kind of riding. Still, Amazon.com has a good price on Mobil 1 for MC with a rebate coupon, good through October, IIRC.
 
But Honda/Yamaha/kawasaki don't want engines failing, so they specify the oil for the job, not for 'most' conditions, they have to warrant for 'All' conditions,
And how long do they warranty the engine for - 1 year? - that's hardly enough time to wear it out. Try to get a warranty replacement for a blown engine that showed any signs of abuse or neglect.

Honda states -

Your warranty covers the repair or replacement, at American Honda's option, any part which is defective in material or factory workmanship under normal use for the applicable warranty period.

So if they were to determine your use wasn't "normal" you'd be SOL.
 
True, but they do have a reputation for durability and reliability, with today's fierce competition the last thing they want is a rash of engine failures to take the edge off that. It's a tribute to the quality of today's oils and Honda's workmanship and design that they are able to extend maintenance schedules to the degree they have. I can remember in the early 70s and years after, new bike warranties were limited to "6 months or 6000 miles, whichever comes first", I believe the Gold Wing was the first to have the year warranty.
 
http://motorcycles.honda.com.au/Supersports/CBR250R

Warranty - 24 months. Says so when you click on the 'Specifications' tab

That is long enough to rack up 50,000km or more if ridden daily, flatout in hot Aussie summers, by hamfisted learners, or brutal bastards like me.... on GN4 10/30w Mineral oil.

Honda covers it.
But it wont break

Its a Honda :D
 
i did already 64000KM on cbr250 with full syntetics, rebuilded the engine at 50000KM, almost no wear at all, was using motul 7100
now i using CASTROL power 1 racing, i am not going back to mineral after syntetics did very good job at preventing wear
 
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