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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can we use this type of oil in our engines without destroy them.
The advantage could be a less viscous oil during start up and a better lubrication during the same period. A smoother shifting also come to mind.
The price when in special is 7 CAD /liter which is not bad for a full synth.
Can I have your opinion ?

Marius
 

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Not sure, manual says 10W30, (I'm using 10w40 Mobil 1 Racing 4t), and not energy conserving which the 5w40 may well be. Don't know, but I wouldn't.:confused:
Not much help, I afraid.
 

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I have just used the recommended grade of oil, and the recommended oil change intervals in motorcycles I have owned. It has kept them running sweetly for a good long time.

From the Owner's Manual:

ENGINE OIL

Oil Recommendation
Your motorcycle does not need oil additives. Use the recommended oil.
Do not use oils with graphite or molybdenum additives. They may adversely affect clutch operation.
Do not use API SH or higher oils displaying a circular API ‘‘energy conserving’’ service label on the container. They may affect lubrication and clutch performance.

NOT RECOMMENDED
Do not use non-detergent, vegetable, or castor based racing oils.

Suggested Oil
SG or higher except oils labeled as energy conserving on the circular API service label
SAE 10W-30 MA
Honda ‘‘4-STROKE MOTORCYCLE OIL’’ or equivalent.
 

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Can we use this type of oil in our engines without destroy them.
The advantage could be a less viscous oil during start up and a better lubrication during the same period. A smoother shifting also come to mind.
The price when in special is 7 CAD /liter which is not bad for a full synth.
Can I have your opinion ?

Marius
I use rotella in all my toys. Just DO NOT use any oil that says energy conserving or it will destroy your clutch
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Previously Rotella 5w40 didn't have the JASO MA norm which means that it's safe for wet clutches. It is not an energy conserving oil ( didn't see that on the API sign). I was afraid just by the fact of being 5w40 instead of 10w30
Thanks a lot for your responses
Marius
 

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Shell Helix HX7 is " API SN/CF; ACEA A3/B3/B4; JASO SG+; Mercedes Benz approval 229.3, VW 502 00, 505 00; Renault RN 0700; Fiat 9.55535 G2 meets requirements."

Does that mean it will be okay being JASO SG? Since 5L is only $32, could get that and just buy filters separate.

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A better choice than Rotella 5W-40 T6 would be Rotella T 10W-30 or Rotella T5 10W-30. I believe a 30-grade is the best choice for the CBR in almost any conditions.

T is conventional, T5 is synthetic blend - both are fine to use and have no Friction Modifiers.
 

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Using T5 right now for the past 3k miles. Bike seems to love it. I'll switch back to T6 5w-40 during the hot summer months. Bike loves both of them.
 

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Using T5 right now for the past 3k miles. Bike seems to love it. I'll switch back to T6 5w-40 during the hot summer months. Bike loves both of them.
This is a point of debate on another thread...

Basically, if you oil temps are not running over 220 degrees (shouldn't be in normal riding even in hot weather) and you are losing oil pressure there's no reason to increase the oil viscosity from 30 to 40. A thicker oil moves heat away slower and builds more pressure - not always necessary or a good thing.

10W-30 is the best choice for almost everything - except cold temp starts (use a 5W) or extended high rpm running and high loads (racing) in hot temps where the oil would go over 220 (in that case go to a 40-grade if you need to pick-up more oil pressure that was lost due to higher than normal oil temp).
 

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For the Helix spec'ed oil: The JASO SG+ means a Japanese gasoline car claim (like SN for API), it should read JASO MA or MA2 to know it's tested for proper friction for motorcycle clutches.

Even if an oil is not labelled energy conserving it can still have unfavorable composition for clutch friction so JASO MA (or MA1 or MA2) is your sure bet, it's what the Japanese invented for motorcycle oils.
Not saying it can't be good it's just a risk you take that it underperforms and yiu have to change again.
Richard

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For the Helix spec'ed oil: The JASO SG+ means a Japanese gasoline car claim (like SN for API), it should read JASO MA or MA2 to know it's tested for proper friction for motorcycle clutches.

Even if an oil is not labelled energy conserving it can still have unfavorable composition for clutch friction so JASO MA (or MA1 or MA2) is your sure bet, it's what the Japanese invented for motorcycle oils.
Not saying it can't be good it's just a risk you take that it underperforms and yiu have to change again.
Richard
That is true - JASO MA and variants are certified for wet clutch use.

Shell certified T6 only recently, but the additive package for T6 is the same as the rest of the multi-grade T-series (per Shell Tech Rep). Straight-grade Rotella isn't the same.

So it's (Edit: T and T5) not technically certified JASO MA, but it is safe. Plenty of people swear that oil with Friction Modifiers is fine for cycles - and many have run many miles using it - but a diesel oil like Rotella is a much better choice (especially T5 IMO).
 

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This is a point of debate on another thread...

Basically, if you oil temps are not running over 220 degrees (shouldn't be in normal riding even in hot weather) and you are losing oil pressure there's no reason to increase the oil viscosity from 30 to 40. A thicker oil moves heat away slower and builds more pressure - not always necessary or a good thing.

10W-30 is the best choice for almost everything - except cold temp starts (use a 5W) or extended high rpm running and high loads (racing) in hot temps where the oil would go over 220 (in that case go to a 40-grade if you need to pick-up more oil pressure that was lost due to higher than normal oil temp).
This shouldn't be a debate. Either are fine to use in these bikes, and I have for over 12k miles. Summer months allow use of a slightly thicker oil to combat shearing from higher temperatures. We constantly get to 80-90+ degrees here in the summer, so me running a 40 weight is fine. If temps don't get very high, 30 weight is the best choice. Here, we have cold winters and very hot summers, so I switch grades. No difference in mileage, cold start, or power between them. Most of my miles are around the 6-7k RPM constant highway range, so something more shear stable is my best bet. It seems to shift smoother with the T6 than the T5 after about 3500 miles or so. The T6 seems smoother longer. I wish they'd offer the T6 in a lower viscosity; I'm not sure why they don't when the syn blend is offered in multiple viscosities.
 

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This shouldn't be a debate. Either are fine to use in these bikes, and I have for over 12k miles. Summer months allow use of a slightly thicker oil to combat shearing from higher temperatures. We constantly get to 80-90+ degrees here in the summer, so me running a 40 weight is fine. If temps don't get very high, 30 weight is the best choice. Here, we have cold winters and very hot summers, so I switch grades. No difference in mileage, cold start, or power between them. Most of my miles are around the 6-7k RPM constant highway range, so something more shear stable is my best bet. It seems to shift smoother with the T6 than the T5 after about 3500 miles or so. The T6 seems smoother longer. I wish they'd offer the T6 in a lower viscosity; I'm not sure why they don't when the syn blend is offered in multiple viscosities.
If you are not overheating your oil, and losing pressure, there's no need to go to a 40-grade. Heavier is not better. The cycle transmission shears oil - not heat.

As far as shearing down, that's specific to the oil. Some 40s will shear faster than 30s - the grade doesn't matter - but the viscosity range does. T6 (5W-40) will shear down quicker in cycle use than a lot of other 40s, so it does get closer to a 30 after some use. Typically the wider the viscosity range the less stable the oil will be.

Cruising on the highway at 7000 RPMs isn't stressful on the CBR in the summer - there's plenty of airflow and cooling happening and your oil temps are not excessive. Most water cooled engines control the oil temp very well even in hot temps, especially when cruising (constant RPM and light load).

Just because the weather is hot doesn't necessarily mean the oil should be heavier. That's old school from the days of Big Twins and poor oil that that would breakdown because of excessive heat and poor cooling.

You can use 40 in the CBR, but 30 is a better choice - year round.
 

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I use Rotella 15-40 diesel rated mineral oil in my CBR250R with complete satisfaction.
It costs $3 / quart at Sam's Club, so changing it is not expensive.
When I change it again this spring it will have 3700 miles and has gone down none
since the last change. The engine seems to love it. This works for me.
The owner's manual that came with my Sach's MadAss 125 calls for "15W-40 mineral oil"

Cheers

Rick
 

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You guys crack me up...

Everyone is trying to tell me why they deviate from Honda's basic recommendation of 10W-30.

I'm saying - "go with Honda's basic recommendation of 10W-30 in almost all conditions" - and everyone is arguing with me.

The one person I've seen here that could benefit from a 10W-40 oil that is racing the CBR in hot conditions uses 10W-30.

I should add - if you feel you need more protection - use a better oil. I haven't seen an analysis of GN-4 that was that great. Using T5 10W-30 (synthetic blend) or a full-synthetic 10W-30 motorcycle-specific oil will give you considerable more protection in the higher heat range than a conventional oil like GN-4.
 

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I don't know why I even bother to read these things...I think the temp range and viscosity range published in the Honda manual, from Honda, knows the bike well enough to describe what oil you can use. Not to mention our bikes have a pressure relief valve behind the pump that allows excess from a higher preset pressure to dump back into the sump.

Shear stability is governed by the viscosity ranges, and narrow ranges do typically shear less over time. But going from a base II/III blend to a full base III offers different shear properties, regardless of the extended viscosity range. Is it better or worse I can't say and no one else can either, as any published claims are from the manufacturer themselves. I simply choose to run full synthetic Rotella in the summer, and it's only available in 5w-40. If they had a 10w-30 would I run it instead? Probably.

Run 5w-30 if you want. Run 10w-30 if you want. Run 5w-40 if you want. There will be no difference between them, and no significant difference in oil pressure between a 30 weight and 40 weight. If you do have a big enough difference to matter between 30 and 40 weights, then it's because your bearings are too far worn and the clearances are too wide, and you have a bigger concern than oil weight to contend with.
 
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The one person I've seen here that could benefit from a 10W-40 oil that is racing the CBR in hot conditions uses 10W-30.

.
Heh, you'll be proud of me now :D

Using that new fandangled Fuch oil :p



*Thanks to Fuchs Australia.
 
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