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Honda: INNOVA125i(2010); CBR250R(2013)
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Purchased at aliexpress for 7.61USD Free shipping:
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Now I'm waiting to get the adapter 16pin OBD TO 4Pin DLC.
I installed on my mobile TWO free APP software(The QR code did not work. At the app store I found and downloaded manually):
  1. Torque Lite (OBD2 & Car)
  2. Car Scanner ELM OBD2
 

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Honda: INNOVA125i(2010); CBR250R(2013)
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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
The cable OBD 16Pin TO DLC 4Pin has arrived too:
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
It can happen in any store. The ELM327 OBD2 scanner does not work, probably a problem with the protocol communication that is not compatible with our ECM. I opened a non-return dispute, and I received a full refund of 7.61USD. Even before the refund I had already filled out a new order, found a component at a bargain price of 4.99USD, and now I am waiting for it to arrive. It's part of the game.
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In the video(Attached below) the motorcycle under test is: My Honda Innova125i (ANF125i):

(Next update when the new component will arrived)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
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The ODBII device in the pictures above also managed to connect to Bluetooth but failed to connect to ECM.
I received a full refund from AliExpress.
I have no intention of continuing in that direction.

Reading the codes with a short wire connected to a DTC connector, and recording the flashing of the yellow light (MIL), is a good way that efficient enough for FI troubleshoot.
Here is a LINK to a video I made on the subject of reading codes from a DCT connector.

Based on the test with a short wire, I have no record of code problem on my ECM, which means that the entire FI system is functioning properly. It remains for me to find out if the previous owners of my motorcycle made a change in the parameters of the ECM (probably canceling the control option on idle RPM - see LINK to this thread).
 

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Honda didn't make any OBD2 compliant ECMs until 2016. Until then, everything used proprietary software running off laptop. You won't find any dealer-mechanics using bluetooth or phone interfaces.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
...You won't find any dealer-mechanics using bluetooth or phone interfaces.
Honda's certified and licensed mechanics are not allowed to use non-standard tools.
BUT ...
The rest of the mechanics do make intelligent use of cheap tools, and there are two reasons for this: (1) a matter of cost-effectiveness. (2) When the tool is cheaper it is easier to deal with the issue of tool theft (tools that grow "legs", and travel outside the garage).
Honda didn't make any OBD2 compliant ECMs until 2016. Until then, everything used proprietary software running off laptop.
Danno, are you claiming that the experience I made was hopeless in the first place?
Do I have to return the money to AliExpress?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
yes, your bike's ECM does not support OBD2 protocols.
Interestingly, I tend to agree with you, because I tested two different components, and both did not respond to the ECM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Now that you have hardware interface figured out, it comes down to compatible software that will communicate with ECM. Try these to download ECM's internal maps to Windows laptop:

Danno thanks but, as much as you call hardware to OBD2 / DTC(4-Pin) adapter, so for the computer I need a K-Line adapter for USB, so I come to the realization that I do not have the appropriate hardware.
But if you say I need an adapter cable DTC-to-USB I will check what I need to order, or if you have a diagram which pin goes to which pin, Pin(DTC) to Pin(USB), I will build one of these on my own.
And if later all it takes is to download free software to PC,
then can I do a flash for CBR250R (2013) ECM?

P.S. the second software is not free, the price is 150USD.
At the moment I have not tried to download and install the software.
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Here's info I have so far:

- DLC hardware interface uses ISO-9141-2, so your DLC to OBD2 adapter works, can replace bluetooth connection with USB-to-OBD2 cable. This should send K-line through to serial terminal of USB. Or you can make your own USB-to-DLC adapter shown in circuit below. Get DLC connector here: Sumitomo MT Sealed Motorsport Motorcycle Connectors - Corsa Technic

- communications occurs at 10400 baud, very slow. Downloading 256kb ECU maps will take 18-minutes.


I sent you link to MCU software. At least their read-only application will show run-time stats (live data) from ECU for diagnostics & troubleshooting. Refresh-rate may be slow due to slow link. As for flashing ECU, you first modify downloaded BIN maps, then re-flash image back to ECU using HondaFlasher.

Other than Honda's proprietary software, I'm not aware of any way to do "live" adjustments to ECU. Although I suspect it too downloads BIN maps, modifies them, then re-upload back to ECU. It's just more convenient all-in-one application rather than requiring use of separate flasher and editing software.

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
- DLC hardware interface uses ISO-9141-2, so your DLC to OBD2 adapter works
According to the Chinese manufacturer's statements in the OBD2 devices that I bought there is a protocol 9141-2, and they both didn't work, the two devices ware unable to contact the ECM!
Or you can your own USB-to-DLC adapter shown in circuit below....
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Danno, according to your additional offer, I need to build an electric circuit on my own, because at the moment it is not possible to buy it in the markets, I understand correctly? Not a complicated circle, but I'm not currently going to invest any time in it. If you will find that you have a "flash" route that works, I would be very happy if you would update us. THANKS!
 

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According to the Chinese manufacturer's statements in the OBD2 devices that I bought there is a protocol 9141-2, and they both didn't work, the two devices ware unable to contact the ECM!
You have to separate the hardware from software. When you said "unable to contact the ECM", that is purely software issue since your phone doesn't speak same language as ECU. Hardware is connected properly.

It's like lamp plugged into wall, hardware is OK. But if power isn't sent through wires, lamp does not light. Nothing wrong with hardware.

At this point, you have everything needed to dowload BIN maps from ECU. Just need to use Windows laptop, connect to bluetooth adapter, and run the HondaFlasher software.

Or get USB-to-OBD2 adapter for laptop: 2.56US $ 20% OFF|OBD2 Car USB Interface with CH340 Chip for VAG KKL 409 OBD 2 Professional Diagnostic Cable for VAG409 KKL Car Scanner Adapter|Car Diagnostic Cables & Connectors| - AliExpress

Magic step is running HondaFlasher programme. It uses proper language to talk to ECU.

Or you write your own software. Here's guide to K-line protocols: K-Line Communication Description - V3 0 | PDF | Communications Protocols | Telecommunications
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You have to separate the hardware from software. When you said "unable to contact the ECM", that is purely software issue since your phone doesn't speak same language as ECU. Hardware is connected properly.
Yes is purely software issue.
& No. phone doesn't speak with the ECM. The speak with the ECM is performed only between the Chinese device and the ECM, and the Chinese device transmits decoded data to the mobile.
The ECM reading software is burned into the Chinese device (protocol ISO-9141-2). Bluetooth communication to mobile, it also has some standards, and with this Bluetooth communication there was no problem. In the Chinese device, according to the manufacturer's specifications, the protocol you mentioned (ISO-9141-2) is burned in to it.
LINK to aliexpress
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
At this point, you have everything needed to dowload BIN maps from ECU. Just need to use Windows laptop, connect to bluetooth adapter, and run the HondaFlasher software.

Or get USB-to-OBD2 adapter for laptop:
No & No

From my experience what you write does not work, but I'm in your favor(y), please when you manage to do what you explain come back and update us. Thanks!
 

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Yes is purely software issue.
& No. phone doesn't speak with the ECM. The speak with the ECM is performed only between the Chinese device and the ECM, and the Chinese device transmits decoded data to the mobile.
The ECM reading software is burned into the Chinese device (protocol ISO-9141-2). Bluetooth communication to mobile, it also has some standards, and with this Bluetooth communication there was no problem. In the Chinese device, according to the manufacturer's specifications, the protocol you mentioned (ISO-9141-2) is burned in to it.
LINK to aliexpress
View attachment 45483
ok, we need to back up and learn what ISO-9141-2 standard is...
 

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Ok, to truly understand how this works, you need to understand 7-layers of OSI model. You are getting "OBD2" transport-layer mixed up with "application". OBD2 just provides buckets to carry data across from ECU to application on top. What you put in that bucket makes HUGE difference. Just because 2 sides agree on using 2-liter wooden-buckets to transport information doesn't mean they will understand each other. An application must speak exact same language as devices on other side Torque speaks different language than HondaFlasher, even though they are both applications at top layer on top of OBD2 transport on top of ISO-9141-2 datalink.


Think of layer-1 wires up to OBD2 transport layer-4 as "newspaper paper". It can be yellow, blue, pink, etc. So Honda has standardised on papyrus paper (layer-1) as it's transport mechanism with blue dye (layer-4 ISO-9141-2/OBD2). IF you ALSO use blue papyrus paper, you too can communicate with Honda ECU.

However, if you pass blank blue pieces of paper through port-hole to ECU, it won't know what you're saying and it'll pass nonsense blank blue pieces of paper back. You need to add additional layers of information on top using common language. Some kind of writing or print on that blank blue paper. "Language" used at application-layer on top is what you're missing right now. Torque is writing Polish onto same pieces of blue papyrus paper being passed to ECU. But ECU only understands Japanese language written on same blue pieces of paper. That's language HondaFlasher.exe sends to ECU, no other application speaks that language!
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You study the matter just like me, and to be precise, I am not interested in studying and going into the depths of the matter. Bottom line? I agree with you on this point:
An application must speak exact same language as devices on other side
The app I used on the mobile is the app recommended by the Chinese device manufacturer.
The software and hardware in the Chinese ODB2 device are unable to connect to the ECM. It has nothing to do with the cell phone. The green control light that is supposed to light up in the Chinese device and indicate that the connection to the ECM was successful and is correct, this light does not light up, instead a "light organ" appears.
Besides the Chinese device has a green control indicator of the success of the connection between the ODB2 device and the mobile, and this green light is not light up as well.

Separately there is another indication found on the mobile phone that the Bluetooth communication does connect properly to the Chinese device. The mobile app did report a successful connection of Bluetooth communication.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok, to truly understand how this works, you need to understand 7-layers of OSI model. You are getting "OBD2" transport-layer mixed up with "application". OBD2 just provides buckets to carry data across from ECU to application on top. What you put in that bucket makes HUGE difference. Just because 2 sides agree on using 2-liter wooden-buckets to transport information doesn't mean they will understand each other. An application must speak exact same language as devices on other side Torque speaks different language than HondaFlasher, even though they are both applications at top layer on top of OBD2 transport on top of ISO-9141-2 datalink.


Think of layer-1 wires up to OBD2 transport layer-4 as "newspaper paper". It can be yellow, blue, pink, etc. So Honda has standardised on papyrus paper (layer-1) as it's transport mechanism with blue dye (layer-4 ISO-9141-2/OBD2). IF you ALSO use blue papyrus paper, you too can communicate with Honda ECU.

However, if you pass blank blue pieces of paper through port-hole to ECU, it won't know what you're saying and it'll pass nonsense blank blue pieces of paper back. You need to add additional layers of information on top using common language. Some kind of writing or print on that blank blue paper. "Language" used at application-layer on top is what you're missing right now. Torque is writing Polish onto same pieces of blue papyrus paper being passed to ECU. But ECU only understands Japanese language written on same blue pieces of paper. That's language HondaFlasher.exe sends to ECU, no other application speaks that language!
View attachment 45485
Bottom line: Two different devices I ordered from AliExpress failed to complete a proper connection to ECM, so I received a full refund from AliExpress for them both. A nice device that was supposed to read codes from DTC, a really simple and also cheap device, failed to do the job it was supposed to do according to the promised specifications.
 
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