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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The manufacturer recommends testing Spark Plug every 25,000 Km, and replacement at the latest after 51,200 Km.
The photographed spark plug is measured, and the spacing is within the normal range (less than 1 mm)...And replaced with a new one!
It will be clarified: the iridium spark plug must NOT be adjusted, and if the spacing is incorrect, it must be replaced with a new one (OR after 51,200 Km even if the spacing is OK).
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Holy crap that looks very bad! I just replaced my plug after 21,000 miles and mine still looked almost new. But I couldn't believe how much the new plug improved the bike's performance.

How did your bike feel with the new plug?

JimW
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
How did your bike feel with the new plug?
Sorry, I can not answer your question, I would say: The engine did not make any suspicious sounds before the spark plug was replaced, and it sounded similar after the replacement. Sure it has a positive effect on the engine performance, but not one I can "measure" because I hardly rode on it. Right after the purchase I put it in my private "workshop" for comprehensive treatment, which included replacing another components that have an impact on the power, such as: Air filter and .. In my opinion, this is also the first time valves adjusted in that motorcycle. I did not find any significant deviations from the specifications, I measured deviations between 0.05 and 0.1 mm (see attached photo).
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"The engine did not make any suspicious sounds before..."
 

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I'm a bit baffled by "the iridium spark plug must NOT be adjusted" part. Is this "warning" specific to motorcycle spark plugs? And why? The only explanation I can find is that the electrode is "sensitive", which sounds pretty thin to me.
I just replaced the NGK Iridium Plus plugs in my car and I had to adjust the gap on every one.
 

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Based on the deposits on the plug, I would run a strong fuel system cleaner. If the plug has deposits - so does the piston and combustion chamber. That can cause problems like detonation because of increased compression and low quality (octane) fuel.

We have seen instances of major engine damage, which I feel is related to carbon build-up and detonation, but the cause has not been definitely proven.

That plug should have been replaced a while ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
"the iridium spark plug must NOT be adjusted" part. Is this "warning" specific to motorcycle spark plugs? And why?
These are explicit instructions from the Honda manufacturer. There is also a recommendation to avoid testing with a flat type feeler gauge, and preferably a wire type feeler gauge. I guess there is a fear of destroying the electrode (The tip). As for the tuning, it is done on the metal strip above the electrode, looks like regular iron, as if there should be no problem with it, but I tend to listen to the manufacturer's recommendations, sure there is a good reason why this is forbidden.
Strange that you had to tune new spark plugs, I am checking the new ones too, but never found them out of tune.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
...I would run a strong fuel system cleaner. If the plug has deposits - so does the piston and combustion chamber.

That plug should have been replaced a while ago.
OOOH... YES. Thank you so much for the good advice!

It is also the extreme lifespan that made the spark plug look like this. The plug did not go out of use, maintained the correct spacing, and gave a good spark, the engine showed no difficulty in starting, or discontinuous RPM at idle. The engine with the old spark plug operated smoothly and nicely.

But I will take your comment seriously.
I tend to believe that part of the problem is overheating experienced by the engine, either because of a short event of oil starvation(There were an oil leaks that required the replacement three oil seals), or because unadjustable valves? Maybe a clogged exhaust (catalytic converter issue)? In effort that could causes a rise in temperature. This "problem" requires monitoring. At present my assessment is that no irreversible damage was caused to the engine.
 

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These are explicit instructions from the Honda manufacturer. There is also a recommendation to avoid testing with a flat type feeler gauge, and preferably a wire type feeler gauge. I guess there is a fear of destroying the electrode (The tip). As for the tuning, it is done on the metal strip above the electrode, looks like regular iron, as if there should be no problem with it, but I tend to listen to the manufacturer's recommendations, sure there is a good reason why this is forbidden.
Strange that you had to tune new spark plugs, I am checking the new ones too, but never found them out of tune.
Apparently Amazon is having a problem with the proliferation of counterfeit Iridium spark plugs. Although there is a lot of discussion about the problem available online, there is no easy way to conclusively tell if the plugs you received are the genuine article. I actually called NGK and asked them to verify the lot number of the plugs I bought. While they confirmed the number I gave them was a valid NGK lot number, they could not guarantee that counterfeiters were not using current NGK lot numbers on their phony plugs. The gap on the plugs I received were not wildly out of spec, just slightly. I am so used to correcting the gap on new plugs that I always routinely check (with a wire gauge of course) every plug before installing it. The gaps were all very close, but I still had to tap the electrodes on them a tiny bit to make sure they were at the exact spec my car required. Maybe I'm a bit OCD in that regard, but at no time did I feel that adjusting the gap might have damaged the electrode. As much as manufacturers continue to try and "stupid proof" their products, I doubt I'll ever get to the point where I'll install a new plug straight out of the box without checking them and adjusting as needed.
 

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I thought I saw something about counterfeit plugs online somewhere that gave a side-by-side comparison and ways to tell the real one from the faker.

This is happening all over. Especially in the auto parts industry. Fakes are getting better all the time. They recommended buying parts from an actual factory dealer, in person or online, instead of just any seller.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I doubt I'll ever get to the point where I'll install a new plug straight out of the box without checking them and adjusting as needed.
Obviously, a good mechanic, even if he is an amateur, he checks parts even if they are new. It just sounds weird to me that the measure you found is incorrect, I check for years, and it never happened that I got a new spark plug that is in deviation from the allowable range. And of course, the Honda manufacturer instructed not to touch.
In your place I would do the exact same thing, I would not throw a new spark-plug in to the trash, and I would do exactly what you did. I do not suspect that your plugs are fake, but as jkv357 explained, today anything is possible.

Fakes are getting better all the time.
YES
As I understand it, one of the reasons for the process you mention is the fact that most of the important patents in the automotive industry in general, and also in the motorcycle industry, are expired patents. Then the "counterfeit" can certainly reach the level of the original part, and under a cheap brand you can get those "counterfeits" at a cheaper price. Today not everything that is cheap is junk. And in the field of "fakes" there are really good deals.

Ordering from general stores such as eBay, Amazon, Eli Express, so there is an element of gamble, but the sales corporations I mentioned are important that customers are satisfied, important to them from success statistics, so, thanks to successes, many of us have learned to trust them too.

Here is an example of an excellent product, which costs a tenth of the original, true, the steels are much less quality, and the product is made in part from casting (rather than precision machining) ... but what have I already asked for, to extract bearings? He does that job excellently:
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It's only counterfeit if a copy has the original makers name on it.

A copy may look the same, but if it isn't trying to be passed-off as the original it's not a counterfeit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It's only counterfeit if a copy has the original makers name on it.
Okay, but counterfeiting can come in many forms: With fake logos; Fake papers, and can be partial like Coca-Cola Vs Coka-Kola, and when the logo weakens you see phenomena like Pepsi. The thing is that the world has a decline in brand value, and an increase in the consumption of cheap and good products. The decline in brand value is so strong that even the Chinese are copying themselves. When did we last hear about a copyright lawsuit? Today’s brands motorcycle is manufactured (+\-) in a similar quality to “Unknown” brands, because everyone manufactures in the same factories.

The main patents no longer need to be stolen(They are expired).

Since everyone is copying from everyone there is no longer any incentive to copy logos and papers. Today quality is bought by price, and the brand has lost its value.

Brand indifference is everywhere, the manufacturer leaves you a place to stick any logo you want on it (see example in the attached photos).
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I thought I saw something about counterfeit plugs online somewhere that gave a side-by-side comparison and ways to tell the real one from the faker.
Unfortunately the "side-by-side" comparisons online are not extensive or conclusive enough and can easily be mis-interpreted. Counterfeiters are also constantly improving their product. The most frustrating was actually calling NGK and having them more or less admit that they can't even tell the difference.
I'm fairly confident that I got genuine plugs this time, but I will be purchasing any future plugs from a reputable online NGK vendor and not Amazon.
 

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Unfortunately the "side-by-side" comparisons online are not extensive or conclusive enough and can easily be mis-interpreted. Counterfeiters are also constantly improving their product. The most frustrating was actually calling NGK and having them more or less admit that they can't even tell the difference.
I'm fairly confident that I got genuine plugs this time, but I will be purchasing any future plugs from a reputable online NGK vendor and not Amazon.
I think that's the only way to be sure, unfortunately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I will be purchasing any future plugs from a reputable online NGK vendor and not Amazon.
A company like Amazon builds on us, the customers. Building on our reports. If you report that the product is counterfeit, explaining there an abnormal deviation compared the original product, and attached a picture of the measurement, I assure you they took it seriously, and there is also an option to cancel the transaction and get the money back. Sellers in sites like Amazon can cheat, but they have a close supervision that does not really pay off for them to cheat. Instead of disqualifying a good supplier category like Amazon, next time, I suggest to you consider filing a dispute . The dispute resolution process is much more efficient than the courts, it is fast, and the refund is immediate.

We would all like to live in a utopian world without thieves and fraudsters, but until that happens, adapting to existing shop systeme like Amazon makes it possible to lower costs. just sayin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
I think that's the only way to be sure, unfortunately.
I personally actually like the idea of a cheap plug, the patents are expired, so why not? So the more interesting question, in my opinion, is how much TrueFaith paid for what was suspected to be fake? full price? If YES So it worth opening a dispute for full money refund! A third of the price? So maybe that makes sense. In my opinion in the discussion here the price component is missing.

There are many ways not one way. The manufacturer sets rules, if you understand what the reasons are, it is certainly possible to come up with alternative solutions. If a manufacturer has fixe a Iridium plug, that:
1. It advertises and commits to a large interval between treatments.
2. It commits to HP, and an upgraded plug contributes to the HP issue.
3. Relying on section 1 he also establishes an uncomfortable access to the same plug.
4. Maybe the three factors 1, 2 and 3 together.
So obviously the manufacturer will write rigid instructions in the maintenance book. Because he has to fulfill his obligations.

And I say, a plug is a plug, no more and no less. And if a trader offers me a reliable spare part at half price, sometimes at a tenth of a price, I make profit and loss considerations, and only then decide.

The problem is with those who do not understand mechanical engineering, and they should not take a chance. In the Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, the protagonist talks about repairing a BMW motorcycle by cutting an aluminum that can be cut from a Coca-Cola-Can. There are those who understand how Shims works: fits from aluminum, does not fit aluminum, etc...., And those who do not will pay twenty times as much for original aluminum shims.
 

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A company like Amazon builds on us, the customers. Building on our reports. If you report that the product is counterfeit, explaining there an abnormal deviation compared the original product, and attached a picture of the measurement, I assure you they took it seriously, and there is also an option to cancel the transaction and get the money back. Sellers in sites like Amazon can cheat, but they have a close supervision that does not really pay off for them to cheat. Instead of disqualifying a good supplier category like Amazon, next time, I suggest to you consider filing a dispute . The dispute resolution process is much more efficient than the courts, it is fast, and the refund is immediate.

We would all like to live in a utopian world without thieves and fraudsters, but until that happens, adapting to existing shop systeme like Amazon makes it possible to lower costs. just sayin.
I was fairly confident that I had purchased good plugs, but all the chatter about counterfeits did make me a bit paranoid and required a bit of research. I deal with Amazon quite a lot and have never had a problem with a refund or dispute, but they are definitely seeing more problems the more third party sellers they represent.
I've also noticed lately that the reviews on products from buyers can't be trusted as much as previously. With so many customers the review sections have devolved into something resembling Yelp instead of providing usable reviews. I've bought "top rated 5-star" items that I've returned immediately because they were trash. I think I paid $54 for 4 plugs, which is just slightly less than the price at local auto parts shops and I was pretty sure I was getting the real thing. You can pay a quarter of that price for some brand name iridium plugs offered on Amazon and it wouldn't surprise me if that is where 99% of these counterfeits are actually found. If it sounds too good to be true....
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
make me a bit paranoid
On "Amazon" sites, where anyone can own a store, and it is always a third party, it is always good to be suspicious and check every transaction carefully,

I've also noticed lately that the reviews on products from buyers can't be trusted as much as previously. With so many customers the review sections have devolved into something resembling Yelp instead of providing usable reviews.
YES! me too...
Yes, like any successful business owner, the temptation to take advantage of your power and steal customers exists all the time ... Amazon made a mistake with you, and they will pay the price, because for exactly the reasons you mentioned I recently trying to NOT visit their site...In my opinion this is temporary, they will see a drop in sales and fix their way.

I think I paid $54
Thanks! Good price, and now I get in to check for reference, and saw deals at US $ 35 for 4 NGK Iridium plugs.
By the way, I think the iridium can be tested with a magnet, it should not be magnetized. Magnetize the head of a flat-blade screwdriver, and check gently. If the magnet is attracted to the "Iridium" so it is NOT an iridium.

If it sounds too good to be true....
In markets such as Amazon, where the game is good value for money, everything can sound good, and be good, it's the kind of deals that need to spend time in their supervision, it pays to know sites of this kind ... Virtual stores are not a passing episode or a gimmick, they here to stay, they have become part of the routine of our lives ... the corona virus has accelerated this process.
 

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I personally actually like the idea of a cheap plug, the patents are expired, so why not? (SNIP)
Even if it's cheaper, you are being ripped-off if it's counterfeit. If it has a different name, and it's 1/3 the price, that's different. Then you know there may be a difference between the name-brand and what you are buying. Most of the time there are compromises in the quality of the materials or manufacturing to get the price way down.

Personally, I'll pay for the real thing (quality parts). I just don't care. It's not a significant cost in my mind. Just like I prefer to run what some people consider to be "expensive" quality synthetic oil. The additional cost isn't a concern in the big picture for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Even if it's cheaper, you are being ripped-off if it's counterfeit.
This is not about cheating, in the case of cheating you open a dispute and get a full refund.

Are you aware of the possibility that the trader sometimes buys surpluses from the manufacturer, sometimes type B (insignificant defects) ...? There are no patents to steal, today it does not pay to steal a brand, so today it does not happen. If the price is really low, and even if not ... the brand has lost its value, you have to check the specifications and not the brand:
1. Iridium? Yes/No
2. The other dimensions? Yes/No

Most of the time there are compromises in the quality of the materials or manufacturing to get the price way down.
YES. It is agreed, when the level is lower the price is cheaper , sometimes very cheap, and still of sufficient quality, what makes the same products in high demand.
 
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