Honda CBR 250 Forum banner

81 - 100 of 103 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,450 Posts
This stalling issue certainly has caused some debate, and some good evidence has actually arisen which may help some peoples cases with this issue. Ari Henning from motorcylist magazine does some videos of the YouTube channel MotoTrend with the show called "On Two Wheels" for those of you who don't know.

Anyways, he has now done 2 videos of the Honda CBR250R racing the ninja's in production 250cc racing and commented in his video that when he was racing, when he braked hard and downshifted, his engine shut off which brings up this stalling issue. I thought i would just show you the video for those who may find it interesting :)


Go to 4:50 for the stalling part but i recommend the whole video and "On Two Wheels" show as it is awesome and has some great videos and reviews, mainly of modern high powered sportbikes :)

Cheers,

Lewi
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Been debating for a bit on whether or not to get involved in this can of worms, but I'm going to bite.

Bike: purchased brand new 8/26/11, non ABS, ~5800 miles, M4 Street Slayer pipe, all services on time.

Me: riding 1.5 years, ~8000 miles under my belt, MSF course completed last July.

Issues: Stalls when under 3 bars on the temp gauge, especially in colder (used to be just under 60F, now under 75F) or wetter conditions: anytime the throttle is completely closed, all power lost (therefore, only while sitting in neutral or the last bit of coming to a stop--I engine brake until the final bit). Trouble restarting without opening the throttle while doing so. Overall, got a little worse after the first service and has progressively worsened since. Problem existed both before and after I installed the exhaust (1/31/12)

Dealer had it last fall for a couple weeks for the problem, couldn't replicate it enough to do anything. Had it again in the spring for a couple weeks, replicated it, adjusted the valves a bit. Didn't help or hurt. Did talk to a Honda rep both times, so the problem was on record. They didn't know anything.

Bike has now been with my dealer for the last 39 days and I've been riding a loaner 2009 Ninja 500R (dinosaur compared to the CBR). I told them I didn't want it back until it was fixed, and I didn't hear from them for four weeks. I called at that point for updates, and they had been able to replicate it several times, but the bike is stored indoors and not gotten to until at least 10am, so it was usually on the warmer side to begin with. Said he'd take it home and test it on cold mornings. Didn't seem too eager to fix it or get it back to me, either way.

I called Honda yesterday, added this new information to what they already have on record for my bike. The woman I spoke with on the phone seemed concerned and said she'd put priority on my case and that I'd hear back from them by Tuesday.

So, we'll see. I'm not speculating one way or the other, but just wanted to get this out there to show that it's not just the low mileage bikes doing it. And that mine isn't clutch-related.

Edit: Also, I can keep it from stalling if I rev enough. And sometimes it'll just totally cut out when it stalls, but others it will lug around 900 and then cut out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
I've had my bike stall 3 times.

Once coming upright around a corner at around 25mph and downshifting-laying on the starter is of no use, had to give throttle to rouse the engine.

Second at speed, clutch in(hazy on that one)

Third, at a light, clutch in waiting the 30+ seconds for the light to change and as soon as it did, I realized the bike wasn't even running. Pulled over and kept cranking it over but only rolling the throttle would get it to work again. Fuel delivery?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
A few bikes do seem to have a larger fuel delivery issue in addition to the stalling that then also makes them hard to restart. Most of the bikes that stall when you pull in the clutch will fire right back up with the first crank of the starter button.
This is what I have. Will not restart without throttle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Discussion Starter #88
This stalling issue certainly has caused some debate, and some good evidence has actually arisen which may help some peoples cases with this issue. Ari Henning from motorcylist magazine does some videos of the YouTube channel MotoTrend with the show called "On Two Wheels" for those of you who don't know.

Anyways, he has now done 2 videos of the Honda CBR250R racing the ninja's in production 250cc racing and commented in his video that when he was racing, when he braked hard and downshifted, his engine shut off which brings up this stalling issue. I thought i would just show you the video for those who may find it interesting :)

Modified Honda CBR250R Strikes Back! - On Two Wheels Episode 17 - YouTube

Go to 4:50 for the stalling part but i recommend the whole video and "On Two Wheels" show as it is awesome and has some great videos and reviews, mainly of modern high powered sportbikes :)

Cheers,

Lewi


What I find interesting is Ari has head work done to his, so it's not really a stock engine and it still stalled. This has got to be the most puzzling issues with a bike. Some guys had their valves adjusted and the stalling went away..Ari had head work and assuming his valves were checked before and after and his still stalled..on mine the valves were fine, but Honda thinks the head is warped. I have tried recycling the killswitch, had no effect on mine at all. What a crazy engine issue. Can't really issue a recall when some are fixed through a valve adjustment and some are stalling in the same manner, but for other reasons unknown.

Crazy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Discussion Starter #90
If you don't have the stalling issue, then you have nothing to worry about. Keep riding it and have fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
What I find interesting is Ari has head work done to his, so it's not really a stock engine and it still stalled. This has got to be the most puzzling issues with a bike. Some guys had their valves adjusted and the stalling went away..Ari had head work and assuming his valves were checked before and after and his still stalled..on mine the valves were fine, but Honda thinks the head is warped. I have tried recycling the killswitch, had no effect on mine at all. What a crazy engine issue. Can't really issue a recall when some are fixed through a valve adjustment and some are stalling in the same manner, but for other reasons unknown.

Crazy.
Just got off the phone with my dealer, who talked to a Honda tech. They came to the same conclusion about the head on my bike, and are replacing it next week. Valve adjustments did nothing, so we'll see. I'm skeptical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,527 Posts
I think it is a programming issue with the fuel ecu and/ or a hardware issue with the idle air valve where the engine does not quite resume injection soon enough to catch the descending rpm during decel fuel shut off when closing the throttle and pulling in the clutch, or, the "rest position" of the idle air control valve isn't high enough. It could probably be fixed with a simple software flash to raise the resume value if Honda ever gets anybody working on this that knows what they are doing.
.
(He said while turning blue in the face) I will have to save this post in file so I can just paste it without having to type it again for the 40th time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Haha I did notice that you have put this on all 10 pages of this post and about 100 times on the "enging turns off when downshifting post".

Just wondering if Redline encountered something different. Not trying to make you sound like a parrot Sendler. ( ° ᴗ°)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,789 Posts
I think it is a programming issue with the fuel ecu and/ or a hardware issue with the idle air valve where the engine does not quite resume injection soon enough to catch the descending rpm during decel fuel shut off when closing the throttle and pulling in the clutch, or, the "rest position" of the idle air control valve isn't high enough. It could probably be fixed with a simple software flash to raise the resume value if Honda ever gets anybody working on this that knows what they are doing.
.
(He said while turning blue in the face) I will have to save this post in file so I can just paste it without having to type it again for the 40th time.
I think you may be right, and was thinking along the same lines myself. The only thing that gives me any doubt is why doesn't every bike do it? Are there different firmware levels available? Does it depend on riding style, or how much the engine has been thrashed? By that I mean, has the engine been used throughout it's full rev range enough for the ECU to learn?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,527 Posts
why doesn't every bike do it?
Every CBR250R is on the verge of acting up. Mine has done it twice ever. Maybe a few more times that I am not sure about because I was down shifting and it re lit when I let out the clutch. And the bikes that do it every day are right on the verge of not doing it. The decel fuel shut off program is just designed too close to the edge right now. Some stall. Most don't. The difference lies in what is termed in the automotive buisiness as "a build up of tolerances". Running lighter oil will help. Running a loud exhaust should fix it although one person says it is still happening. An aftermarket fuel controller would certainly prevent it although the racer is having another more devastating issue with the latest ignition control version which seem to be glitching and locking up, requiring a reset with the kill switch to get it going again which none of the "garden variety" stallers ever need.
 
81 - 100 of 103 Posts
Top