[sendler]

Craig Vetter is calling for a show of hands of interest for his streamlined motorcycle body work kit which is now in the final stages of pre production.
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2012 Vetter Streamliner Kit-Chap 61
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Several years of real world testing have proven 100 mpgUS at 70 mph on a first gen Ninja250 which can be purchased used for $1000. Better cams for the Ninja or a more efficient bike like a CBR250R or 125R could do considerably better on fuel. Streamlining will make an electric bike go much farther also.
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Warm, dry, steady and quiet in buffeting winds. And locking storage for 100+ liters of gear or groceries. Use the full tail for the best aerodynamics or truncate the shape behind the rear wheel for easier parking in the garage.
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Every commuter or world traveler that is fit enough to ride needs one of these to help save our remaining resources.
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Build a Vetter streamliner and help spread the word.
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[gromit]

I'd like to get one of those setups for my competition bike.

 

[NSU]

Kamm tail is the way to go. The fully aero model looks like a homebuilt ultralight aircraft with its wings ripped off.

I like Airtech's retro dustbins:

VINTAGE HALF FAIRINGS, CAFE, MANX, TRITON, DRESDA, TRIUMPH, NORTON, BSA, BMW, MOTO GUZZI, DUCATI, HONDA, SUZUKI, KAWASAKI, YAMAHA

 

[atakacs]

Craig Vetter is calling for a show of hands of interest for his streamlined motorcycle body work kit which is now in the final stages of pre production.
.
2012 Vetter Streamliner Kit-Chap 61
.
Several years of real world testing have proven 100 mpgUS at 70 mph on a first gen Ninja250 which can be purchased used for $1000. Better cams for the Ninja or a more efficient bike like a CBR250R or 125R could do considerably better on fuel. Streamlining will make an electric bike go much farther also.
.
Warm, dry, steady and quiet in buffeting winds. And locking storage for 100+ liters of gear or groceries. Use the full tail for the best aerodynamics or truncate the shape behind the rear wheel for easier parking in the garage.
.
Every commuter or world traveler that is fit enough to ride needs one of these to help save our remaining resources.
.
Build a Vetter streamliner and help spread the word.
.
.

.
.

.
.
.

That thing doesn't look like a motorcycle. I can't picture driving that thing back and forth to work. I think TNT car club would run me over for driving that thing.

 

[wjhall]

A quick calculation says that going up to 100mpg(US) from 80mpg(uk) at uk petrol prices (1.4GBP/L, 8.5USD/USGal) would pay off the 2000 dollar cost after... 80,000 km.

 

[sendler]

That thing doesn't look like a motorcycle.

It will. "Someday everything that goes fast will be round at the front and pointy at the back". Craig is unfortunately two steps ahead of the game at this point.

 

[sendler]

A quick calculation says that going up to 100mpg(US) from 80mpg(uk) at uk petrol prices (1.4GBP/L, 8.5USD/USGal) would pay off the 2000 dollar cost after... 80,000 km.

He is obviously going to have to come down on the price. I would go as high as $300 each for the nose and the cowl. A truncated tail is the real no brainer as you then also gain huge, lockable storage.

 

[wjhall]

He is obviously going to have to come down on the price. I would go as high as $300 each for the nose and the cowl. A truncated tail is the real no brainer as you then also gain huge, lockable storage.

well for my commute, that's actually only 4 years, which isnt actually too bad. If you factor in increases in fuel prices it could pay off sooner. The counter is that it would probably detract from resale value, providing further 'cost' that needs to be offset by fuel savings. Back on the plus side, i imagine it would help with straight line performance, atelast in terms of top speed, and possibly acceleration if the drag reduction isnt offset by extra weight.

What this really serves to highlight is the high drag that bikes experience. Over the last decade or two you can see that street cars have become alot more aerodynamic whereas bike have done less so. Perhaps such changes in bikes (which have the potential to direct wind and rain away from the rider as well as improving drag) are hard to do without drastic changes such as this sort of streamliner fairing, or the dustbin/dolphin fairing of old. And people tend to be resistant to step changes compared to gradual ones.

 

[sendler]

resale value for a commuter has always been irrelevant to me . I plan on running my CBR until it drops. The most aerodynamic motorcycle (Hayabusa) has a coefficient of drag of over .6cd. In a full tuck. Sit upright and you are probably closer to 1.0. A barn door. Many modern cars have cd of less than .3 but have more frontal area than a bike. cdA is the final factor for determining drag. Even with the low area, bikes can be much better if they are aero. Streamlining the CBR will make it feel like a different bike above 50 mph. Where some riders now feel that the bike can't pass on the highway, a streamlined version will fly past the stock bike up to a crazy top speed of who knows what? 120 mph? You don't have to run the complete tail either. Kamm has shown us that you can chop off the last 40% of length with only a 10% increase in drag.

 

[shisoshin]

many reasons why this streamliner wouldnt work for me,,
starting from a position of neutrality to the concept
as it could be handy for some in some situations,,
to start with this is asking me to spend $2250
[plus install etc] to firstly, add more weight..

experienced motorcyclists have posted excellent
examples of weight savings here, starting in, ounces..
weight for me and my riding, is a genuine factor,
as is, for me, $2250+ to pay for it..

for general suburban commuting etc, cant see it
in traffic, parking between cars in limited spaces etc..
this morning i had to thread my way in an S shape
around cars and a bus blocking both lanes as they
all tried to change to the left lane, which was easy
on my cbr250r, but only just..
cant see this streamliner which looks to be much
longer than a normal bike, being any use in general
suburban riding especially thru, and in traffic
where its weight would add to, mpg, as its
streamlining wouldnt have any real effect
other than getting in the way..

for me ergonomics of the motorcycle and my position
on it are very, important,, whereas this design seems
more like lounging back into a lounge chair, virtually
destroying use of body parts and c of g movements
in handling the motorcycle, being part of, the whole
as it moves and as you move together..

riding position looks like a cross between dentists chair
and a big long motor scooter riding posiiton..
however you mount the thing it cant be the typical
motorcycle method of lifting your leg over the seat,
so it must be stepping thru it like a motor scooter..
dismounting would be as for a motor scooter..

these are just typical day to day motorcycle use..
one occasional problem on my cb72 with full fairing
[one mold] was being hit by side winds on highways..
the amount of flat surface area presented makes
this thing look like an invitation to be blown over..

there must also be questions as to general handling
in fast or emergency riding, given that motorcycles
their rake and trail and so on are not designed
to carry this sort of long high additional bulk..

one, reason dustbin fairings were banned from racing
was that they took away the visual impact of 'a motorcyle',
giving it a body covering the wheel like a car..
for me also, despite the extra 20+mpg claimed
it just looks like something not, a motorcycle...

must admit tho with its low extended round nose
it does look good for knocking over pedestrians
or animals without impact on the front wheel..

thinking of warmth, comfort[?] staying dry etc,
i did think of a small car, before deciding on
[another] motorcycle, this beaut little cbr250r..

if, it was offered with a streamliner body
and motor scooter seating/ergonomics etc,
for half the purchase price again, there would
be no chance of accepting the offer, thanks..

as for racing, which seems to be part of the strategy
here, it could work in some tracks with long straights
and few tight turns, but for typical circuits how will
it take to being drifted into corners..
altho you could give marquez one to 'sweep away'
the competition with his long tail instead of
bouncing them off the track...

 

[sendler]

one, reason dustbin fairings were banned from racing
was that they took away the visual impact of 'a motorcyle',
giving it a body covering the wheel

The main reason dustbin fairings were banned from motorcycle racing is that they made the bikes way to stinking fast! People were starting to over run their brakes and tires so the sanctioning body needed a way to slow them down. And it has been that way ever since and even continues for land speed racing where the fairings must be cut out to show the entire rider's body from the side. And the wheels must be visible, ect.
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You don't need the full tail. You can chop it off at 60% of the total airfoil length making the bike the same total length as it was. But gaining weather protection, 100 liters of locking storage, 20% better fuel economy which will put me over 120 mpgUS at 65 mph and a big reduction in 50-80mph acceleration times. Count me in.
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You can set it up to sit on the bike any way you want. Most people prefer a cruiser position. Some people like to sit straight up but then wonder why they have a sore ass. I like a head forward and laying on a tank bag position for the best agility, a lower and more anchored side wind profile, and all day comfort.

 

[DieselMaxPower]

I think 70 mpg on the cbr is good enough for me. Gas is just too cheap for me to get excited about something like this.

 

[sendler]

You said it. Gas is way too cheap. People in the USA have no care in the world about just wasting it as much as they want. Gas should be taxed to at least twice it's current price to pay off the national debt.

 

[DieselMaxPower]

I think Ralph Nader used to run on the idea of "tax things you don't like". If the US is serious about reducing debt and against burning fossil fuels, that would be a good option. I doubt we'll see that in my lifetime though.

 

[shisoshin]

just checked google images for vetter streamliner, many egs showed
same stretched scooter layout, rider sitting back, legs forward..
a few full coverage enclosed torpedo shapes, with trainer wheels rear..
one diesel powered job with sort of conventional motorcycle position
but more hunched with elbows on knees, not a serious novice/traffic bike..

most looked like, rough handiman knock ups..
not like refined design and finish with wind tunnel subtleties..
bikes shown naked prepared for the shells looked butchered,
as motorcycles, seats very low, not something you could sell..
included various stages of production including solid metal
framework which said 'ungainly' and 'extra weight'..

you have members here asking how to change chains,
how to adjust their clutch lever, and so on,, how are they
going to fit these streamliner body shells to their cbr250r..
or, who is going to do it for them, and at what cost,
given what mechanics charge for changing chains..

while still on a restricted [re-entry] license limited to 80 - 90km/hr
with most of my daily riding in suburbia including traffic etc,
my typical riding simply wouldnt benefit in any real way
from carrying this extra weight for streamling at that speed..
the extra weight could only increase fuel consumption..

in australia we pay about double what you pay in usa,
and this streamlining at half the cost of the motorcycle
[not counting installation etc costs] doesnt interest me
other than, as another interesting aspect of motorcycling..

how are usa riders with similar pocket depths and riding patterns
[lower speeds, suburbia, traffic] going to accept this streamlining
kit when they get their fuel for half the price i pay...

the matter was raised here, so this is a genuine attempt
at feedback response, from my point of view, as it seems
obvious to me given whats been presented..

also obviously, electric if hydrogen fails, will be the future
of motorcycling sooner or later.. honda having made a
very nice looking electric motorcycle already sets that
stage as a potential reality.. their bike tho
is a conventional modern racing type design..
interesting...

 

[sendler]

wouldnt benefit in any real way
from carrying this extra weight for streamling at that speed..
the extra weight could only increase fuel consumption..

Adding mass to a bike only hurts your fuel economy when you touch the brakes. Which is very infrequently for me on my highway commute. I actually add mass to my bike for economy competitions as it increases the effectiveness of Pulse and Glide.
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Streamlined motorcycles go farther on a gallon of gas and an electric bike that is streamlined will go farther on each Watt hour of electricity.

 

[sendler]

Full streamlining does Kinda suck the cool right out of motorcycling. And puts it right into your tank. And keeps it out of the air.
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I am going to truncate the tail behind the rear wheel which still gives 90% of the aero advantage.
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If motorcycles looked like this, the performance would be improved dramatically. And still look cool.
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[NSU]

I still think detachable dustbins are the way to go for aftermarket.

If anyone can clip them on or off with a wrench in 15 minutes it can sell, at least as a retro look modification.

The manufacturers could be doing the heavy lifting to reduce CdA on stock bikes, but let's face it, most buyers go for looks and image before anything else, and gnarly looking bikes are usually very non-aero.

 

[shisoshin]

sendler - mate, my point was as to context of lower speed suburban
riding situations including traffic etc, ie, generally under 50mph..
also, say there was zero effect of extra weight on potential economy,
in the lower speed stop-start environment there is also no benefit,
or no compelling benefit, such as in your highway oriented riding..

when i had a full fairing on my cb72 it was mainly for long runs
[sydney to melbourne etc] and in cold weather, but otherwise
esp in the heat of australian summer, i took it off..
comfort, can also include not being behind or within
a shell together with a heat source, rather being
within the open cooling air flow..

these are just realities which must also be considered

 

[sendler]

Luckily the CBR250R seems to be nearly adiabatic in that it gives off very little heat.