[billyedtimmy]

 

[Aufitt]

Even tho our combined system is a little different its a good thing, I'm pushing mine very hard with confidence testing it and ive only had it a very short time.

Any long term cbr250 ABS owners here with their thoughts after a few thousand miles?

All those testers liked it, maybe only Valentino or Stacey could live with either but for the rest of us mortals ABS is here to stay I think.

 

[bungie4]

I've got an ABS model. Cheap option for the safety (hey, it's the cost of a decent helmet!).

It's my first ABS bike. I've never triggered the ABS - it's something I've been meaning to do though. I did notice that rear (combined) pedal is very soft. I think you'd have to give it a TON of pressure to even come close to locking it up. It's has gotten better as the miles have been put on though (about 3Km at the moment).

As for the guys that claim they can outperform an ABS equipped bike. MAYBE, but that will be in controlled conditions. What about when some blue haired old granny pulls a left turn in front of you. I garuntee in a panic situation, despite muscle memory, you'll gave the binders for all the worth and, without ABS, chances are your going to go down.

I say give yourself a fighting chance.

 

[CeeBeeArr]

Even tho our combined system is a little different its a good thing, I'm pushing mine very hard with confidence testing it and ive only had it a very short time.

Any long term cbr250 ABS owners here with their thoughts after a few thousand miles?

All those testers liked it, maybe only Valentino or Stacey could live with either but for the rest of us mortals ABS is here to stay I think.

I am approaching 7k km and I think the ABS is just great. I have never had it come into play on any dry pavement stops, some which have been pretty darn short. It has occasionally clicked a bit on gravel.

My opinion is that the biggest benefit is that it gives you feedback about the road conditions and tells you when you are at the limit of traction. Of course, so does locking a wheel but with ABS, you don't go down.

For those people how see it as increasing backing distance, how could that be? A locked wheel has less friction with the road than one that is turning. ABS lets you get to the traction limit much faster and safer.

If you are braking at the limit of traction, ABS will not kick in; it only does so if the wheel starts to actually slip on the road as indicated by a difference between the rotational speeds of the wheels.

You can brake to the absolute limits of traction knowing that if you go too far, you will not go down with a locked wheel. Of course, you can still slide out for other reasons like just plain too fast on gravel.

It is a benefit that could save me from road rash or worse and I am glad to have it.

 

[CBR250R]

I've got an ABS model. Cheap option for the safety (hey, it's the cost of a decent helmet!).

It's my first ABS bike. I've never triggered the ABS - it's something I've been meaning to do though. I did notice that rear (combined) pedal is very soft. I think you'd have to give it a TON of pressure to even come close to locking it up. It's has gotten better as the miles have been put on though (about 3Km at the moment).

As for the guys that claim they can outperform an ABS equipped bike. MAYBE, but that will be in controlled conditions. What about when some blue haired old granny pulls a left turn in front of you. I garuntee in a panic situation, despite muscle memory, you'll gave the binders for all the worth and, without ABS, chances are your going to go down.

I say give yourself a fighting chance.

+1. I have never triggered the ABS on my bike either - even with some hard stops. In those situations I have always been attentive so that I didn't brake beyond the limit of traction - though I can tell I've been right on the edge several times. But under emergency braking conditions, that suggests to me that I am doing it correctly. However, I can't guarantee that in all circumstances, in all conditions, at all times, I will be able to maintain that same level of braking consistency - especially when braking due to some sudden, unforeseen emergency. That is why I appreciate the security of knowing that I will have a bit of assistance if and when needed. It might also help as a selling feature if I ever decide to get rid of the bike (not that I'm planning to do so ever ). I would never want to rely on ABS to the point where I have stopped trying to improve my riding skills. The truth is - for the most part I've completely forgotten that I even have ABS on my CBR250R. That is how transparent it is. It is like insurance. I hope I am never in a cirumstance where I have to use it - and except for paying my yearly premium - I never really even think about it.

Mike

 

[kflaig]

A locked wheel has less friction with the road than one that is turning. QUOTE]

Pretty sure that's not right, locked tires have more stopping force than rolling tires. Q&A REGARDING ABS BRAKES

Of course, for 99.9% of us motorcycle rides that's irrelevant since when we lock both tires and don't react fast enough we fall down.

 

[CeeBeeArr]

A locked wheel has less friction with the road than one that is turning. QUOTE]

Pretty sure that's not right, locked tires have more stopping force than rolling tires. Q&A REGARDING ABS BRAKES

Of course, for 99.9% of us motorcycle rides that's irrelevant since when we lock both tires and don't react fast enough we fall down.

I'm happy to be corrected but I read the link and don't see anything to refute what I said. I based my statement on something I read from long in my past so I could be mistaken. I think it was the driver training manual from the 70's. Yikes!

Very interesting that it makes stopping longer on slippery surfaces. That supports your response so perhaps that is what you are referring to. Now I'm curious...

 

[kflaig]

"ABS is designed to help the driver maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not make the car stop more quickly"

Read further and you'll find out why. Again, bottom line is that it's irrelevant for the vast majority of us cause we really don't want to fall down when the **** hits the fan.

Not falling down trumps stopping somewhat sooner.

 

[kflaig]

Thinking about this more tells me that those of us who have ABS should learn how to engage it when we really need to stop.

My thinking goes like this. I'm not an expert. I don't race anymore. I'm out of practice and when I was practicing I wasn't reallyy all that good.

So, when you think you might die if you don't slow down fast enough. nail those f'ing brakes.

Let the ABS sort it out!

Of course, it would be real wise to go to a safe place and practice first!

 

[woolf]

abs

I have ABS on all 3 of my BMW's and would not BUY onther bike without...... ABS will not make the bike STOP faster or shorter BUT will let you CONTROL the STOP better. which can in time make your stopping shorter plus they where only $500.00 usd more

 

[motorpsycho]

ABS will not make the bike STOP faster or shorter BUT will let you CONTROL the STOP better.

+1

That is pretty much the message I got from watching the video. ABS stabilizes the bike when either (or both) brake pedals are completely compressed when encountering emergency stopping situations at high speeds; whereas a non-ABS version does not.

 

[Aufitt]

There is always going to be the odd folk that are better than than Valentino or stacey that will tell you they are better than ABS.

I will challenge them... In fact soon a mate is getting a non ABS and we'll test this..
I sure hope I dont stack his bike trying lol.

 

[kflaig]

OK guys, here's the real bottom line:

"Motorcycles equipped with anti-lock brakes are 37 percent less likely to be involved in a fatal crash than models without ABS, according to a new study from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS)."

Anyone have a good comeback that negates that fact?

IIHS study: Motorcycles with antilock brakes are much safer

 

[Luke]

A few inflammatory remarks from the Dinosaur Contingent:

• ABS is a tool. Just like any other tool, used properly it can benefit, but used improperly it won't. If you feel that you don't need to learn how to brake efficiently because you have ABS, you're using it wrong.
• Rather than figure out how to get ABS involved on every stop, you should figure out how to avoid the ABS kicking in. If ABS kicks in, then you failed - You could have done a better job of brake modulation.
• If you use the C-ABS exclusively (i.e. you just stomp the foot pedal), your stops will be significantly longer - C-ABS on the 250 only controls one puck on the front brake, which should be providing 80% or more of your stopping force - as the load is progressively shifted forward under braking, the rear tire has less and less weight on it, thus less adhesion.
• The IIHS study is interesting, but I think it takes some liberties with cause and effect. The people who are willing to pop $500-$1000 more for ABS are typically older and/or more cautious riders - they are much less likely to contribute to the accident statistics than the 17-year-old who bought a 600SS for his first bike. A similar conclusion could be made that since most obese people drink diet drinks, diet drinks must be fattening.

It's your money, so you should buy what you want. However, if you bought a non-ABS CBR250R and are having twinges of buyer's remorse after reading this thread, ponder these thoughts for a minute:

• The act of stopping is but one (potential) part of an emergency avoidance maneuver. You have to recognize the hazard, determine how to avoid the hazard, and take action. If you think that the presence of ABS covers all of that, then I'll come visit you in the hospital.
• In many cases, braking is not the correct answer at all. In the video, the shortest stopping distance from 80mph was what? - 36 meters or 120 feet. If a car pulls out in front of you, you may not have 120 feet, much less the distance that you will actually have seeing as you're not a professional racer. I can change lanes in less that 40 feet, but in order to have that option you have to work on your situational awareness and add it to your option list.
• ABS or not, learn how to stop your bike. Find a parking lot and practice shorter and shorter stops. Develop a feel for the point where the CBR is delivering maximum braking force. Remember that as you brake, the load is shifted to the front wheel, so you can progressively add force to the brake lever. Don't worry so much about the rear brake, as it becomes less and less effective as you master the front brake (NESBA recommends for track days that novices don't use the rear brake at all).
• Lastly, your goal should be to never put yourself in a situation where you have to explore the limits on braking to avoid an accident. Riding within your limits, keeping proper following distance, maintaining a 10-12 second scan, and assuming that everyone in a car is trying to kill you will do a much better job of keeping you alive than assuming ABS will save you. Yes, we've all read about the guy that turns left right in front of you - but in a lot of those accidents the rider never applies the brakes or has 20 feet of skid marks. No matter how good you or your C-ABS is, you're not going to make 60-0 in 40 feet.

Apologies for the long-winded post, but if you got this far, thanks. Now go out and ride - the more you practice, the "luckier" you get.

Luke

 

[Luke]

By the way, here's a link to another thread talking about motorcycle accidents and statistics. It was done before ABS was widely available, but it should be required reading for anyone buying a motorcycle - especially the part about "lack of attention".

http://www.cbr250.net/forum/honda-cbr250-general-discussion/687-riding-tips-rubber-side-down.html

 

[Aufitt]

You wont avoid a Kangaroo or a car running a red light them doing 160kph.
Washing off speed b4 the impact is only 'Holy pharrk' choice (ive been there)

Thats why I got abs.. and yes you can push it and feel the modulation.. even go a bit harder on the stoppers.

I'll never understand the psycological dillema it causes some folk.
90% of riders would not even know its there.
Lots of gimmics have gome and gone in the motorcycle world from Antidive forks & boost bottles to gear position indicators... ABS is not one one of them.. get used to it.

 

[CBR-STL]

I agree on all of these points Luke. Especially your point on what type of riders buy ABS and how that may be variable that skewed the conclusion of the study. I was wanting an ABS and settled for non-ABS. I practice my braking pretty often. If I rode often in the rain I would regret it more, but honestly I am confident without the ABS for everyday driving. I think a heavier bike or someone who commutes in all types of weather would cerainly benefit from it more than someone like me.

 

[Aufitt]

All the racecraft trackdays Ive had we were not allowed to use the rear brakes at all for the first few sessions, or brake once leant over past the braking markers.

Its just wash off speed hard before turn in and throttle on just shy of the apex.
Abs will not hurt one bit in this circumstance. and in the wet its a godsend.

 

[Luke]

I am used to ABS - in fact my next bike will probably have it. However, I've been in firefighting for 30 years, teach it in the US and Latin America. During that time the equipment has gotten better and better, but the end result is that people rely more on equipment and are willing to put themselves in more danger because they think technology will save them.

We had 113 US firefighter fatalities in 1983. In 2009, despite immeasurable advances in gear, communication, thermal imaging, and technology, we lost 112. I guess that's progress.

If you ride stupid you'll die stupid, no matter how much technology you have at hand - that's the point I was trying to make. Obviously it doesn't apply to experienced and safe riders who purchase ABS as a backup to skill.

 

[Aufitt]

Darwins theory of evolution works pretty well for motorcyclists.

Especially new riders.