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Discussion Starter #1
I'd like to know your thoughts in changing oil without changing the filter?
So the bikes oil change schedule is 12000km or 12 months.
But let's say you want to change the oil at 4000km if you drive quite abit.
In a nutshell only change filter at 12000km and oil every 4000km. What are your thoughts?

The reason I ask this is my trip out to the dealership is a long one and getting oil filter is tedious.

Safe riding all.

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I could see going for two 4000 km changes, but that's about it.

The factory oil change schedule is too long IMO, considering the small volume of oil.
 

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4000 kms is just wasting oil. You can safely go to 8000 per change but should change the filter every time. Unless the bike is strictly a track bike and lives at redline there isn't any benefit to changing so often.

My bike has nearly 32000 kms with 2500 of those being track kms. I change every year or every 8000 and the motor is in perfect health.
 
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4000 kms is just wasting oil. You can safely go to 8000 per change but should change the filter every time. Unless the bike is strictly a track bike and lives at redline there isn't any benefit to changing so often.

My bike has nearly 32000 kms with 2500 of those being track kms. I change every year or every 8000 and the motor is in perfect health.
Not when you are dealing with less than 2 qts of oil. 8000 km is equal to about 5000 mi - which is too much for that small amount of oil in a motorcycle engine. Cycle transmissions are hard on oil, and will shear oil down much more than in an auto engine.

Oil is cheap.

Running at redline isn't the only reason to change oil. Cold temps and cold starts, short trips, idling, etc. contribute to the depletion of additives and build-up of contaminants in the oil.

We do agree on the 8000 km filter change though.
 

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1.25 quarts for an engine of 250cc's isn't bad with a good 30 weight oil. Most small car engines are around 2000cc's and use 4.5 quarts and have a 10,000 mile change interval. So engine size to engine size, the CBR has over twice the volume of oil per liter of displacement.

That being said, it also feeds the transmission and wet clutch in addition to the crankcase itself, therefore conducts double duty. So maybe Honda isn't being too overly zealous when they say the oil is good for 8k, but 5k is a much safer approach. Filters are cheap so I see no reason not to change them with the oil too. I do the same on my car.
 
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1.25 quarts for an engine of 250cc's isn't bad with a good 30 weight oil. Most small car engines are around 2000cc's and use 4.5 quarts and have a 10,000 mile change interval. So engine size to engine size, the CBR has over twice the volume of oil per liter of displacement.

That being said, it also feeds the transmission and wet clutch in addition to the crankcase itself, therefore conducts double duty. So maybe Honda isn't being too overly zealous when they say the oil is good for 8k, but 5k is a much safer approach. Filters are cheap so I see no reason not to change them with the oil too. I do the same on my car.
You can't really compare cycle engines to auto engines when it comes to demands on oil.

10,000 mi is also way too much for an oil change in an auto under most conditions. The exception is short warm-ups and long run times at temp - extended highway trips. Short trips and cold temps deplete additives and require more frequent changes.

Running extended (or factory recommended) oil change intervals in a cycle engine is risky, and only advisable in optimum conditions with the best oil. For most, conditions are not optimum. They have no idea what oil you are using and under what conditions you are operating, so their recommendation is just a guess at best. They don't want their products to appear "maintenance intensive", so they stretch the intervals.

Use a good oil. Change it often. Oil is cheap.

That's just my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
4000 kms is just wasting oil. You can safely go to 8000 per change but should change the filter every time. Unless the bike is strictly a track bike and lives at redline there isn't any benefit to changing so often.



My bike has nearly 32000 kms with 2500 of those being track kms. I change every year or every 8000 and the motor is in perfect health.
Hey CBR Blaize, thanks for your comment. I live about 34 km away from work and about 30km is highway. Our speed limit is 120km so the bike is on average cruising at 7000rpm. I use relatively good oil but the amount the bike uses is so little it's cheap.

Ride safe and keep safe.

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Discussion Starter #9
You can't really compare cycle engines to auto engines when it comes to demands on oil.



10,000 mi is also way too much for an oil change in an auto under most conditions. The exception is short warm-ups and long run times at temp - extended highway trips. Short trips and cold temps deplete additives and require more frequent changes.



Running extended (or factory recommended) oil change intervals in a cycle engine is risky, and only advisable in optimum conditions with the best oil. For most, conditions are not optimum. They have no idea what oil you are using and under what conditions you are operating, so their recommendation is just a guess at best. They don't want their products to appear "maintenance intensive", so they stretch the intervals.



Use a good oil. Change it often. Oil is cheap.



That's just my opinion.
Hi JKV357, I use ravenol easter 10w40 due to my higher than 30c ambient temperature over summer. Like today it was 32c. My oil filter and gasket is about 3 times the price of the oil so skipping 1 or 2 of the fills adds up and can go towards the service at the dealer.


Thanks guys for your comments and ideas they ready do get me thinking.

I hope you guys are all safe.

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The reason I ask this is my trip out to the dealership is a long one and getting oil filter is tedious.
My dealer doesn't even keep CBR250R oil filters in stock. And even if they did they'd mark them up more than I'm willing to pay.
Considering that you can get a filter and gasket for short money from websites like Partzilla, why would you even consider dealing with delays and markups for parts like that from a dealership?
I order my filters at least 2 at a time so I always have a spare. The "stealership" hasn't seen my face since I had my 600-mile valve check 6 years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My dealer doesn't even keep CBR250R oil filters in stock. And even if they did they'd mark them up more than I'm willing to pay.

Considering that you can get a filter and gasket for short money from websites like Partzilla, why would you even consider dealing with delays and markups for parts like that from a dealership?

I order my filters at least 2 at a time so I always have a spare. The "stealership" hasn't seen my face since I had my 600-mile valve check 6 years ago.
Good day TrueFaith, I live in South Africa. So partzilla is rather expensive for shipping. The only thing I've ordered from partzilla is my Stator because my dealer was 4 times the price. I wish we had a site like partzilla here in SA.

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Just follow the owner's manual. Every 8k miles. If you go ahead and change the oil at 4k and don't change the filter I don't see a big issue with that, but it's something else to write down and remember for the next oil change. I just change the oil and filter at the same time and be done. Of course it never hurts to keep an eye on the oil level, usually at fill ups is a good time to check the level.
 

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You can't really compare cycle engines to auto engines when it comes to demands on oil.

10,000 mi is also way too much for an oil change in an auto under most conditions. The exception is short warm-ups and long run times at temp - extended highway trips. Short trips and cold temps deplete additives and require more frequent changes.

Running extended (or factory recommended) oil change intervals in a cycle engine is risky, and only advisable in optimum conditions with the best oil. For most, conditions are not optimum. They have no idea what oil you are using and under what conditions you are operating, so their recommendation is just a guess at best. They don't want their products to appear "maintenance intensive", so they stretch the intervals.

Use a good oil. Change it often. Oil is cheap.

That's just my opinion.
I would hardly call manufacturers recommendations "a guess at best". There's millions of dollars poured into R&D for vehicle maintenance recommendations, and while making them longer looks good, having reliability failures from being too conservative looks worse.

Modern oils are fantastic, even at 12+ months old and 10,000+ miles (ProjectFarm on Youtube has a great video). I've done my fair share of UOA's in my cycle, my car, and my parent's cars. I drive lots of highway miles, they drive almost exclusively 4-mile trips around town. We drive the same model cars. Still plenty of life left at 10,000 miles on the Walmart Supertech full synthetic special with good TBN's. I run Rotella or Delo in the bike, depending on what's on sale at the time. I change at 5k miles, oil and filter.

Bottom line is factory intervals are a happy medium for the "average" driver. If all that is driven is short trips, it's good practice to change sooner, but it's not going to grenade your engine. Oil is cheap but not a renewable resource, and is not environmentally friendly to use or dispose of. Money is money, and money wasted is money never had, but if changing sooner makes people feel better....
 
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I would hardly call manufacturers recommendations "a guess at best". There's millions of dollars poured into R&D for vehicle maintenance recommendations, and while making them longer looks good, having reliability failures from being too conservative looks worse.

Modern oils are fantastic, even at 12+ months old and 10,000+ miles (ProjectFarm on Youtube has a great video). I've done my fair share of UOA's in my cycle, my car, and my parent's cars. I drive lots of highway miles, they drive almost exclusively 4-mile trips around town. We drive the same model cars. Still plenty of life left at 10,000 miles on the Walmart Supertech full synthetic special with good TBN's. I run Rotella or Delo in the bike, depending on what's on sale at the time. I change at 5k miles, oil and filter.

Bottom line is factory intervals are a happy medium for the "average" driver. If all that is driven is short trips, it's good practice to change sooner, but it's not going to grenade your engine. Oil is cheap but not a renewable resource, and is not environmentally friendly to use or dispose of. Money is money, and money wasted is money never had, but if changing sooner makes people feel better....
Maybe I should have called it "a happy medium for the average driver" then.

A cycle engine with a small oil capacity puts much more strain on oil than an auto engine, but if saving a coupe bucks makes people feel better...
 

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I think oil threads are the only thing keeping this forum alive in 2020.
 
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I'd like to know your thoughts in changing oil without changing the filter?
So the bikes oil change schedule is 12000km or 12 months.
But let's say you want to change the oil at 4000km if you drive quite abit.
In a nutshell only change filter at 12000km and oil every 4000km. What are your thoughts?

The reason I ask this is my trip out to the dealership is a long one and getting oil filter is tedious.

Safe riding all.

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Always change oil and filter together
 
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